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man arrest for detaining illegal immigrants
Yuma Sun ^ | LOUIE VILLALOBOS, Staff Writer

Posted on 08/07/2003 8:27:02 PM PDT by AZ GRAMMY

Second arrest made in immigrant incident

BY LOUIE VILLALOBOS, Staff Writer Aug 7, 2003

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Yuma County sheriff's deputies have arrested a second man in connection with the alleged unlawful detention of six illegal immigrants on July 31 in Gadsden.

Alexander David Dumas, 26, was arrested Tuesday evening after driving to Yuma from his home in Big Bear Lake, Calif., for an interview, said sheriff's spokesman Lt. Eben Bratcher.

Dumas was charged with six counts of aggravated assault and five counts of unlawful imprisonment following the early morning July 31 incident where deputies said he and Matthew Paul Hoffman, arrested on the same charges on Monday, detained a group of six illegal immigrants that had just entered the United States through the Colorado River.

A third man, Martin Hoffman Jr., was with the two suspects but won't be charged because he was not armed and did not take part in the handcuffing of the illegal immigrants, Bratcher said.

Bratcher said the department will continue to investigate the case and warned citizens against taking the law into their own hands.

He said anyone who sees a group of suspected illegal immigrants should call the Border Patrol, and not take it upon themselves to apprehend the group by using guns and handcuffs. Asking a group to stay put while making a phone call is permitted and would constitute a citizen's arrest, he said.

"When you have someone holding someone against their will with the use or the threat of the use of force, you've crossed the line between a citizen's arrest and unlawful detention," he said. "There was no justification for the use of force."

Deputies said the two men handcuffed five members of the group, which included three children and two women, and held them at gunpoint until U.S. Border Patrol agents arrived.

Agents have said they were dispatched to the scene when a surveillance camera operator noticed the incident unfolding. The agents called the sheriff's department, who then identified and interviewed all three men before letting them go, officials said.

Bratcher said the men are not believed to be part of a larger group, such as the citizen patrol groups that operate on private property along the Tucson border and use various forms of technology to alert Border Patrol agents to the presence of illegal immigrants in the area.

Also being charged with five counts of endangerment is a 16-year-old Mexican national who Bratcher said was paid $600 to bring the illegal immigrants into the United States. Bratcher also said the illegal immigrants were planning to meet with a taxi cab in Gadsden and were to be taken to a unidentified Yuma hotel, according to interviews done of the illegal immigrants by detectives.

William Robbins, Border Patrol spokesman, said the six illegal immigrants were in the agency's custody as of Wednesday morning but couldn't be interviewed.

Hugo Oliva, Mexican consul in Yuma, said the group was in good condition following the incident and that his office is encouraged by the sheriff's department's efforts regarding this case.

"This is a very disturbing thing to happen here," Oliva said. "We can't have people with guns do the job of law enforcement agencies."

http://yumasun.com/artman/publish/a...tory_6619.shtml


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: citizensarrest; crime; illegalimmigrants
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To: jmc813
Not at all. It's the same argument you would make if a group of armed vigilantes came upon your wife and children and demanded their papers. And if you wife decided that she did not have to answer to these people, as they have no legal authority whatsoever to make this demand, and they decided to point their weapons at her and your children then cuff them...

What would your response be then?

1) Why Honey, you and the kids had no business being in an area where armed vigilantes are questioning people.

2) Gee Honey, you and the kids should have simply shown the men in civilian clothing and no badges your papers and they would have let you go about your business.

3) Hey Hun, if the government was doing it's job you and the kids wouldn't have been scared to death; get over it.

Now me, I'm just going to be very, very angry. And those people who did that to my wife and children are going to wish deeply that their mothers had believe in choice and elected it over giving them birth.

361 posted on 08/08/2003 4:18:12 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
It was a stupid point and it was just acknowleged.
362 posted on 08/08/2003 4:19:10 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: CanadianLibertarian; Catspaw; CWOJackson
Illegals are felons crossing international boundaries with illegal intent.

I hate to tell you this: illegally crossing the border, in and of itself, is not a felony.

363 posted on 08/08/2003 4:24:11 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: SpinyNorman

I doubt thatb is necessary. Someone posted here that he has often effected perfectly lawful citizen's arrests upon dozens of illegal immigrants, and has never had to unholster his pistol. The idea is to not commit a felony while trying to apprehend someone who has committed a misdemeanor.

364 posted on 08/08/2003 4:26:46 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Poohbah
"Illegals are felons crossing international boundaries with illegal intent."

You're right about it not being a felony but you have to admit aliens crossing our international boundaries are a serious threat to our people. Have you ever seen Canadian drivers down in the states? I saw shoot them all!

365 posted on 08/08/2003 4:27:41 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: Poohbah
"Illegals are felons crossing international boundaries with illegal intent."

You're right about it not being a felony but you have to admit aliens crossing our international boundaries are a serious threat to our people. Have you ever seen Canadian drivers down in the states? I SAY shoot them all!

366 posted on 08/08/2003 4:27:56 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: CanadianLibertarian

No, you are wrong. Crossing a border illegally is a misdemeanor offense for the vast majority of immigrants. A person has to be caught numerous times for it to rise to a felony.

367 posted on 08/08/2003 4:29:53 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: american spirit
"Just wonder how some of the bleeding hearts on this thread would react if a loved one had ever been brutalized by one of these..."

Vigilantes with guns? I know how I would react.

368 posted on 08/08/2003 4:30:31 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: SendShaqtoIraq

I was reacting to the poster who said the misdemeanor offense should be a capital offense.

369 posted on 08/08/2003 4:31:06 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Libertina

A person can effect a valid citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor if they actually witness the crime. Even then, one has to follow the laws in effecting a valid arrest. Just because someone commits a misdemeanor does not give someone else a license to commit a felony.

370 posted on 08/08/2003 4:34:05 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Amazing, some of these very people defending these vigilantes are the same one's who are frequently screaming about abuses by the police.
371 posted on 08/08/2003 4:37:11 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: John O; Admin Moderator

That someone commits a misdemeanor does not give others a license to commit cold-blooded murder. Maybe you should be elsewhere than among conservatives who are big on justice.

372 posted on 08/08/2003 4:37:32 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Illegal aliens. Notifying the cops. Holding the illegals until they arrive. Sorry, don't see the problem here.
373 posted on 08/08/2003 4:43:04 PM PDT by Libertina
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To: Libertina
There are a lot of U.S. citizens who live along that border of Hispanic orgins. Are they somehow required to show their papers to these vigilantes?

If they refuse to show their papers to civilians with no legal authority to demand them (something to do with Constitutional rights or some other bothersome thing), can those civilians restrain and threaten them?

374 posted on 08/08/2003 4:46:38 PM PDT by CWOJackson (The World According to Garp isn't that bad when compared with The World According to Todd.)
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To: CWOJackson
You immediately spring to the theory that some hispanics were just ambling around and bad "vigilantes" grabbed them. I am going to give my fellow americans who are in the midst of this flood of illegals the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they caught them wandering in the border desert area, perhaps carrying plastic bags of personal belongings etc. But here is the real easy solution: the government should do its job and stop this illegal border crossing garbage. The citizens have a right to expect their government to NOT ABET LAWBREAKERS. If the government does, why should citizens not protect themselves?

Have you ever read the threads here by Jackalope Breeder, who has shown the destruction of land and personal property by these illegals? Even here in the Seattle area we are being innundated. We have schools that are majority hispanic. And no, we are NOT allowed to ask if they are legal before they get all the benefits. The situation is extreme because it has been ignored by elected officials. I do not attack my fellow Americans or blame them for trying to turn it around.

375 posted on 08/08/2003 5:01:20 PM PDT by Libertina
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To: Libertina
You immediately spring to the theory that some hispanics were just ambling around and bad "vigilantes" grabbed them.

Long and short, that's EXACTLY what they did.

They did not witness the border crossing, which is a misdemeanor, and not subject to citizen's arrest unless it is directly witnessed.

376 posted on 08/08/2003 5:05:50 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Poohbah
Perhaps they wouldn't be so angry if their elected officials upheld US law. And the people they held were illegal, weren't they?
377 posted on 08/08/2003 5:10:29 PM PDT by Libertina
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To: Libertina
Perhaps they wouldn't be so angry if their elected officials upheld US law.

Ah, yes.

"We must understand their rage." -- Maxine Waters, defending her co-tribalists' behavior in 1992.

And the people they held were illegal, weren't they?

THIS time, yes.

But, suppose I decide that you don't look like you're here legally (based on whatever criteria I choose to employ).

Do I have the right to (a) demand your identification papers, and (b) detain you at gunpoint and handcuff you when you refuse to provide said papers?

Just answer that question with a "yes" or a "no."

378 posted on 08/08/2003 5:13:54 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Does the law as it is written make only repeat offenses of border crossing a felony?

I'd try digging up the law section myself, but I'm not that familiar with how to find federal codes online.
379 posted on 08/08/2003 5:16:51 PM PDT by brianl703
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To: Cultural Jihad
during my career i have arrested many folks and i handcuffed them and they knew i had a gun. what's the big deal...maybe they should start arresting yuma sheriff deputies for obstructing justice and handcuff them.
380 posted on 08/08/2003 5:20:45 PM PDT by cajun-jack
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