[Alouette]

Dear Mr. Foxman: here's some advice for you

[goldstategop]

Abraham "Twentieth Century" Foxman has made up his mind about the movie. As for it possibly stoking anti-Semitism, I'd like to remind Foxman anti-Semites don't need a reason to lash out at Jews. Like Duh.

[TD911]

Since Abe loves to quote the Vatican about the Catholic Church, I guess Abe will now accept Jesus as the Messiah because the Catholic Church says so.

LOL.

[laconic]

Has he SEEN the movie? I know that having access to the facts is not a prerequisite for name-calling (a common avoaction for Mr. Foxman) but he should at least wait until screening the movie before casting stones at Mel Gibson.

[Restorer]

Historically, Holy Week (the week leading up to Easter Sunday) was a period when Jews were most vulnerable and when Christians perpetrated some of the worst violence against their Jewish neighbors.

Exactly when was the last outbreak of anti-Jewish violence during Holy Week in America? From the the tone of this article, one would assume it was in the last few years. I may have missed it.

[joesnuffy]

Would it be anti semetic to call Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Seigle murdering theives?

Well it was the Jewish priesthood that falsified testimony and trumpt up charges in order to get Jesus murdered "nice an legal like"

They were corupt...Jesus pointed this out time and time again....
So they killed him for it...

Jesus went to his death willingly.. he said "No one takes my life from me ..I lay down my life willingly for the good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep"

Also since Jesus was resurected..He isnt dead...He lives...

So wheres the murder?...if the dead live...is there a murder?

Also if it werent for the Jews (God bless them) we would not have a savior...

Nor would we have had an act of salvation...His plan was that salvation (Jesus) would come to us through the Jews...

So Mel's story is just that...it doesnt dipict the cruelty of the Jewish religous leaders and Romans as much as what it does do...

And that is to show us or at least attempts to...show us just how much Jesus loves us
And what he endured for oursakes..

The modern day Pharasies...the ACLU the ADA..the Southern Poverty Law Center...The People for the American Way..etc etc..cannot stand the name of Christ and the Good News of Salvation be told in public..They work for their father the devil..

They could care less about this false charge of "anti semetism"...their real agenda is to stop Christians from a deeper relationship with Christ one that might lead them to more evangalism

Jesus is awesome ..that he loved us sinners..so much he would go through all that to save us..
Jesus is Lord

[Alberta's Child]

Recognition by the Vatican of the devastating effects of church teachings about Jews - blaming Jews for the crucifixion, delegitimizing Judaism as a religion, not speaking clearly against anti-Semitism - created new Church doctrine which has transformed Catholic-Jewish relations.

Foxman ought to sign up for some lessons on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. To wit:

1. The Catholic Church cannot "create new Church doctrine."

2. As some folks here on FreeRepublic have pointed out, even elderly Catholics today cannot remember ever being taught any of those silly things about Judaism.

[steplock]

I just LOVE these liars! *NOT*

Catholics "blaming Jews for the crucifixion, delegitimizing Judaism as a religion,..."

Sorry charlie - Blaming Jews for the crucifixion? THAT wasn't taught in any of my Catechism classes. Saying that the "Pharisees were to blame" is the same as "ALL jews are to blame" is asinine. Jesus was a jew. Mary & Joseph were Jews, the Bible all about Jews. Catholics discriminate against Jews?

The second part ... "delegitimizing Judaism as a religion"

What? How? True, it is the mission of a Christian to convert non-CHristians to the faith. According to the New Testament, that is the COMMAND given to us.

Does that de-legitimize Judaism? islam? maoism? Zorastrism? and all the other ...isms? Well..... yes...after all we are supposed to convert the non-Christians - NOT to hate them.

[Bob J]

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[dennisw]

You goes nuts when a Jew weighs in against Mel Gibson's upcoming movie. You are obsessed with Jewish defiance and reaction to Gibson's film. "How dare those Yids criticize this film! There are so few of them yet they are such a pain"

FWIW David Horowitz likes the film and it may be good for all I know. But meanwhile we can count on you going ballistic when some Jew speaks up against it. You are absolutely obsessed with Jewish negative reaction to this film. What do you want to do them? Squash them? This is what you try to do via your numerous posts on this subject

I call a spade a spade here and you know it.

 

 

Mel Gibson's Passion - Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:49 PM
By David Horowitz

Mel Gibson's film, The Passion, which is about the last twelve hours of Christ's life is the object of campaign villification and book burning by a committee of Christians and Jews who want to shut it down before it is shown, or edit it to their own politically (or religiously) correct standards. Paula Fredriksen is a spokesman for this committee. The New Republic has shamed itself by printing her ill-informed and bigoted attack on the film.

Unlike Fredriksen and others who want to destroy film before they have seen it, I have. It is not an attempt to portray the historical Jesus -- which is the subject of Fredriksen's entire screed -- nor could it be. By Fredriksen's own account there is no evidentiary basis for such a portrait and if anyone tried to create one it would be eviscerated by the same Savanarolas, precisely because no one can know what the truth is.

Gibson's film is an artistic vision and must be judged that way. Like others who have seen the film, I am sworn to keep details confidential so that it gets its chance when the distributors present it to the viewing public next Easter. However, I will say this: It is an awesome artifact, an overpowering work. I can't remember being so affected by a film before. It is extremely painful to watch and yet the violence is never gratuitous. You never feel like you want to take your eyes off the screen. It is a wracking emotional journey which never strays from its inspirational purpose. It is as close to a religious experience as art can get.

It is not anti-Semitic, as the film-burners have charged. Two illustrative details: Jesus is referred to in the film as "rabbi," and there is never any distancing of Jesus or his disciples from their Jewishness. (One point missed by ignorant bigots like Fredericksen whose only familiarity with The Passion is with a stolen script) is that while the film is in Aramaic -- a brilliant effect that enhances the symbolic resonance of the story -- it has subtitles. Second detail: A Jew carries Jesus' cross along the terrible route to Golgotha and shares his miseries. But yes the film is also faithful to the Gospels and therefore the Pharisees are Jesus' enemies and they and their flock do call for Jesus' death (and why wouldn't they since Jesus was a threat to their authority and their beliefs?).

But all this is to miss the point. This is a Christian parable. The cruelty, intolerance and lack of compassion of human beings is limitless -- and we who have lived through the Twentieth Century know this all too well. The moral of this Christian story -- of Mel Gibson's film -- is that we all killed Jesus -- Jew and Gentile alike -- and tortured him, and we do so every day. But if you believe the vision that Gibson has rendered so searingly and so well, Jesus forgives us for that very act. Whosoever will give up cruelty and love his brother will enter paradise. That is the message that Gibson has framed in his extraordinary work. The effort to shut down his film before it opens is just another station of the cross.

 

[Cacophonous]

More righteously indignant prattle from the Perpetually Outraged and Offended.

[xzins]

First, because there has been a long history of the passion story i.e., the trials, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, being interpreted as holding the Jewish people responsible for killing Jesus.

This is true of history. Holding the Jewish people exclusively responsible for killing Jesus is anti-semitism, imho.

It is not true of the New Testament account. The writer of the gospel of John is a Jew. He says that the "Jews" clamored for Jesus' crucifixion. We're told that Mary is a Jew, Peter is a Jew, Nicodemus is a Jew, etc., etc. At this point, practically all followers of Jesus are Jews. None of them were clamoring for Jesus' crucifixion.

John's use of the word "Jews" was a euphemism for the political leaders. (Perhaps it was derogatory...sarcasm about how they exalted themselves above the common folk.) In any case, it was understood by those who heard it.

Those who don't understand that Jesus is a Jew, really cannot understand that a nexus of leaders had Jesus killed.

But the bible tells a deeper story, actually.

It says that the death of Jesus really belongs at the doorstep of each of us. Our sin put Him on the cross.

As Peter would say of Jesus dying for Peter's own sin, "Not for ours only, but also for the sin of the whole world."

[ultima ratio]

This is nonsense. There is no new doctrine regarding the Jews. The Catholic Church can't invent doctrines in order to get along better with Jews or anybody else. It can't rescind official teachings which are binding on the faithful, no matter how politically correct it may seem to do so. Catholics, along with other Christians, are obliged to accept the evidence of the Gospels--which explains unequivocally that the chief priests and the Pharisees sought to arrest Jesus to have him eliminated. No public relations ploy by ADL can change this.

And while it is true that crimes have been perpetrated against the Jews on the part of some who have called themselves Christians, the Church itself has never sought to delegitimize Judaism in any way nor to preach anti-Semitism. This is a falsehood tantamount to slander. The ADL should know better. It is also speaking nonsense when it declares there was "no Jewish role" in the death of Jesus. Of course there was--and all Christians know it. But we do not blame the Jewish people themselves for what transpired. The death of Jesus was the fault of all of all of us. THAT has been the perennial teaching of the Church which ADL conveniently ignores.

[kstewskis]

...getting sick of this "spew" yet?-PING!!

I need an antedote....quick.

Ahhhh....I'm feeling better now....

(sorry Jay...bear with me!)

[GirlShortstop]

If our concerns would turn out to be unjustified, we will be eager to say so.

ROFLMAO!    

Thanks kstew for the *pic* and the ping!

[The Iguana]

Third, because Mr. Gibson, a "traditionalist" Catholic, has expressed strong criticisms of the modern church and is supportive of views of church policy that question or reject the many 20th-century changes, including the revolution in attitudes toward Jews beginning with Nostra Aetate in 1965.

There is no evidence whatsoever for this allegation. If Foxman has such, he needs to present it.

To question aspects of Vatican II does not automatically entail rejecting the Council's rejection of the deicide charge. This allegation is equivalent to charging anyone critical of Lincoln as being supportive of slavery.

Ridiculous. Foxman ought to know better.