XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[Long Cut]

Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: no data
Barrel length: no data
Weight: 2.67 kg empty
Rate of fire: no data
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG)

The development of the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle was initiated by US Army in the 2002, when contract was issued to the Alliant Techsystems Co of USA to study possibilities of development of kinetic energy part of the XM29 OICW weapon into separate lightweight assault rifle, which could, in the case of success, replace the aging M16A2 rifles and M4A1 carbines in US military service. According to the present plans, the XM8 should enter full production circa 2005, if not earlier, several years before the XM-29 OICW. The XM8 (M8 after its official adoption) should become a standard next generation US forces assault rifle. It will fire all standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition, and, to further decrease the load on the future infantrymen, a new type of 5.56mm ammunition is now being developed. This new ammunition will have composite cases, with brass bases and polymer walls, which will reduce weight of the complete ammunition, while maintaining compatibility with all 5.56mm NATO weapons. Along with 20% weight reduction in the XM8 (compared to the current issue M4A1 carbine), this will be a welcome move for any infantryman, already overloaded by protective, communications and other battle equipment.

The XM8 will be quite similar to the "KE" (kinetic energy) part of the XM-29 OICW system, being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock of adjustable length, and a detachable carrying handle with the Picatinny rail.

Technical description. The XM8 is a derivative of the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, and thus it is almost similar to that rifle in design and functioning. The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines, the set of Picatinny rails on the forend, telescoped buttstock of adjustable length and a different scope, mounted on the Picatinny rail, built into the detachable carrying handle.

[Shooter 2.5]

http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/old_index.html

[Shooter 2.5]

I reload. I just don't reload .303 for the Enfield or 6.5 for my Swiss Mauser. I think the reason is, I never wanted an Enfield in the first place. I just happened to acquire it. I did buy the Swiss Mauser but I thought I was going to get a lot of surplus ammo for it. Both rifles were shot a couple of times and then forgotten.

As far as reloading is concerned, I only enjoy it so I can shoot a lot. I never liked the idea of switching the primer set up for the Dillon. Check my profile page. I have two Dillons set up. One for large primers and the other for small.

[PoorMuttly]

Glad to hear it. I did some amazing things with a (probably discontinued) Lee Target Loader...shrunk '06 groups from 4" (Rem.) to sub-MOA 180 gr. Nosler PP by seating just behind the rifling, and almost filling the cases with Hogdon powder. Nosler book to the letter. It worked ! I like the manual priming tool...you can "feel in" the primer...but it takes time. I will be getting a press, and a pocket tool for..being Muttly, I suppose...but I am shooting a lot of pistol rounds these days, and want to tweak performance, especially in revolvers.

[yarddog]

Well I am not Archy and probably don't know as much about the Schmidt Rubin but I had one for quite a few years and will give you my impressions.

On the positive side it is accurate, probably on a par with the Swedish Mauser. The power is probably about the same as a .308. The workmanship is first rate, better than most commercial actions. I would also guess it is durable. It also uses .308 bullets unlike most European .30 calibers.

On the negative, (mine was a 31 inch rifle) they are heavy and cumbersome. I never did think the straight pull was much faster than a regular bolt action. Also the bolt face has a cut out area and does not completely cover the back of the cartridge head. This does not allow it to be loaded really hot.

When I bought mine they were cheap, then they went way up in price and I sold mine, partly because Norma was the only ammo available. They have now come back down and I would highly reccomend it mainly because of the accuracy and workmanship.

The carbine would probably handle a lot better but that really long barrel does provide a lot more energy.

[PoorMuttly]

Oh...don't like that bolt face cut...rrrrrrr.

Next toy, please.

The more I run around...the more sense my trusty ol' .30'06's make. Guess I'll get a .270 Win next, and concentrate on using them !

[PoorMuttly]

..and I haven't even overlo...er..."experimented" with all these 8x57's around here.

That should make for some colorful reportage.

May the games proceed !

[Shooter 2.5]

Your best bet may be a Dillon Square Deal. It's set up for pistol calibers. I have seen only two or three used Dillons at gunshows so you probably have to buy a new one.

My last experience with a Lee "LeeLoader" was when I was seating a primer and it discharged. I was holding the rod with my bare hand and it left the paint or anodizing on my palm. I mentioned it to a mentor that I had back then and he set me up with a single stage. That lasted too long and then I bought the Dillon 450. I later switched the frame to the 550 and copied the priming system for the upgrade. It's to the right in the picture.

I bought a used Dillon for my son a few years back but started to use it before his Birthday. I became spoiled with the two Dillons, kept the used one and made an order for a new one just in time for his present.

[Shooter 2.5]

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/index.htm

[archy]

1. Archy, you mentioned the Swiss K-31 rifle. I've seen this piece advertised a lot in Shotgun News...is it as good as it looks for the money, and is ammo relatively easy to come by? What mods, if any, would one of these need?

They're just absolutely superb. I'm flat-out impressed by the things, as I was when first invited to a Swiss Army rifle match thrown for the local citizenry to try their hand against the Army shooters. The GwPt 11 7,5x55mm </a< round in their StG 57 assault rifle was still standard then, and I wowed the locals by showing up with a German Kar98k Mauser reworked for the 7,5 Swiss cartridge. They outshot me embarrassingly, with the Stgs, with the K31s, and with the long-barrelled old model 1911. They nicely repaid me with considerable courtesy, including a chance to shoot an early rare German FG42 assault rifle, and with the gift of several cases of 7,5mm ammo for my Mauser, a subtle hint that I could use the practice. Even the 100-dollar finish worn K-31s are swell examples of machine work, and one of the top condition rifles I've seen and handled was so sweet I'd be inclined to wallhang it rather than use it. But they work so well they deserve to be shot, and I have no problem advising you to get one despite the odd cartridge [Redding makes dies, and common .308 bullets for 7,62 NATO and .30-06 work fine in them.] One pal of mine who lost everything he owned in a fire used his insurance check to first purchase a pristine K-31, and I've got one lady friend who favours the long-barrelled Model 1911. BTW, the sight base is just the right width for a Weaver rail mount, and far forward enough for a scout scope.

So far as assessories, you'll want a sling. The issue stripper clips are 6-shoit and made of tin and cardboard so are pretty flimsy; meant to be used once and pitched. Additional box magazines [6 shot] can be obtained again, maybe even turned into a 10 to 12-round mag if thought to be worth the interference it'd offer in prone shooting position. The extra magazines are neither common nor inexpensive, but it can be done. The Swiss muzzlecap is such a well-thought out accessory that they're worth having, and so is the issue 7,5mm cleaning kit roll.

2. For you FAL-aholics out there, I've been eyeing one or another FAL clone for years, but some things about it elude my pea brain. For instance, how often should one adjust the gas regulator, and how is this done? I've heard that they sometimes break gas pistons; are these difficult to replace? Lastly, PLEASE, will someone explain, in simple terms, this business of "metric" FALS vs. "Inch" FALs? The distinction drives me nuts. How do you tell? What mags work with which ones?

I'm just going to tackle the inch/metric rifle and magazine question for you, never having had the slightest problem *regulating* a FAL or L1A1 SLR. When the British adopted the FAL design in 7,62 NATO, they thought the FAL magazine that used a simple stamped and pinched *dimple* as the front magazine pivot was insufficient; and so instead fielded a magazine with the front lug a seperate formed and spotweld-attached part. It can be removed by grinding/filing to allow the use of the magazine in a metric FAL without the necessary recess for the larger lug cut into the rifle's receiver, but that's rather like castrating a stud racehorse.

Observing one of each side-by-side makes it easy to tell, and from then you'll have all the understanding necessary. Both types are quite common and quite inexpensive, but one other detail of the Commonwealth/inch pattern magazines makes them a good longterm choice in hard times: the floorplate lips on them is outside the magazine body rather than inside as with the magazine for a BAR Or M14. This allows a bucking bar or swedge to be run into the magazine body to straighten out any dents that might show up in service. That can also be done with a metric mag, but a relief cut to clear the floorplate rails has to be introduced.

Metrics, with small *dimpled* front pivot lug:

L1A1 SLR magazine body, with seperate formed and added front lug:

Oh, and just how much skill is needed if I wish to build my own? I'm no gunsmith, and my workshop has no lathes or other machine tools. Can I still do this?

Yep. There are a couple of tools an fixtures that make barrelling a FAL receiver easier, but there are fudges around them. There are regional *build parties* here and there every now and again, a swell way to spend a weekend getting to know a couple of fellow FAL crazies, trying out other FAL/L1A1s along for comparison, and you get to take a FAL home afterward as a bonus. But there are video instructional posts, and one way or another, we'll get your rifle going if you need assistance.

Or should i just savbe up for a few years to get a DMS version?

They do make a nice rifle. If you like the Austrian configuration FAL [I don't] they're a great way to go. Or give both a go; build one and pick up one from them, and see which you prefer. I bet it'll be the one you've assembled yourself.

-archy-/-

[PoorMuttly]

Great link. Thanks !

Do you know if anyone is making a no-drilling scope base for the '03 and/or 98K ? I think B-Square did, and I will look now. Is there a PEEP Sight available ? That may be best.

[Shooter 2.5]

http://www.gunaccessories.com/MilitaryScopeMounts/Springfield/index.asp

I didn't look for the 98. I have a Turkish Mauser that I converted to a scout. I can't remember the company but they sold a stock, mounts, rear sights and everything you needed to change the nasty thing into a decent scout rifle. I had it rebarreled to .308. I'm currently using a Leopold pistol scope on it. I think the end price was around 300 dollars plus the scope. It's enough to give Jeff Cooper an even worse attitude.

[yarddog]

I guess after all is said and done, it is hard to beat just a plain old 1903A3 in 30-06.

If I were to own the perfect rifle it would probably be a high quality military 98 Mauser chambered for the 6.5 Swedish, or Norwegian as some would say, and with something similar to the 03A3 sights. I like the long barrels but would probably choose a 24 inch.

[Lurker]

Just bumping to see how long it takes us to get to a thousand....

L

[MileHi]

I have a Swedish cavalry rifle, short barrel and turned down bolt. When I got it it was too pretty to cut. I got a spare stock and cut it at the rear band, thinned the whole thing down and finished it. I put a B-Square mount foreword of the bolt where the rear sight was with a 2x pistol scope. I didn't start out to build a "scout" but that is how it worked out since I didn't want to alter the rifle permanently.

It is a fine shooter. I can restore it, complete with the correct bayonet, in a half hour. And I have $200 bucks in it including scope.

[PoorMuttly]

That's basically what I have in mind for my Frankensteined '03 Mk-1. Although it has a WW-II air-guaged "flaming bomb" barrel, it has the wrong stock...so I'd like to get the right one...and buy a sporter stock too. A schnable-forend type would be great...with a low cheekpiece, like the European "swine back" type has...which I find incredibly fast for snap-shooting, although it's ugly.

I just looked into 8mm, cannelured hunting bullet availability...not productive yet...and hope to "scout" mount a red-dot sight (as Redfield STILL doesn't make an illuminated, long eye-relief widefield 3x!), since I am seriously enamoured with Stripper Clips, and want to try the 98Ks on wild boar. I suppose a bayonet-mounted one would make a dandy boar-spear too ! Can't argue much with the original, "usin'" configuration of hardship-proven military equipment, to my way of thinking. I try to only/mostly use battle-proven weapons, actions, anyway, and iron sights whenever possible (my Luopold-scoped M70, and planned magnums obvious exceptions, except for controlled-round-feed requirements, etc.). All my handguns have fixed sights, too !

But now that you point it out...I should really get an '03-A3, for the peep sight...and keep my beloved '03 stock. I wonder if Ashley or someone makes a semi-buckhorn or folding-leaf conversion for the '03 sight. Really, thinking out loud...I only desire a deeper notch in the issue sight. Hmmmmmmmm. I think that's what I'll do, and give it a good try.

[MileHi]

I saw a peep sight in Brownells that mounts to the rear sight position using the original roll pin. I wonder if it works, seems a little far foreward. I have only used a peep a couple times, but it beats iron in my view.

[PoorMuttly]

I'll check Brownells next. I need new screwdrivers anyway !

Finally found the B-Square site...their 98K mount is LER-Scout type...which suits my scheme...but the '03 one replaces the mag. cut-off...and seems a flimsy way to go...BUT it quickly detaches, and also allows for the use of Iron Sights, like the old G&H Sidemount (bring back memories, guys...?!).

So...here comes my Piggy-Fightin' package !

OINK !

[Who is John Galt?]

I have an L1A1 on an IMbel receiver, love it, got rid of the plastic and have it with an izzy hand guard and original wood grip and stock, now if I can just get the Izzy bolt and charging handle and a trilux I'll be fixed up.

I like the Israeli furniture, too - got lucky when I bought my first FAL (a 'neutered' Izzy FALO ;>) & my first parts kit (another Izzy FALO ;>), so the Izzy wood is even 'correct' (FWIW). TAPCO is selling US manufactured copies of the Israeli bolt carrier & charging handle, but I don't know if they've proven to be 'bullet proof' or not. I think both would count as "compliance" parts, and it seems like they were even on sale recently...

the dang K-31 I just got looks great,perfect bore sweet trigger, got a scout mount and ler scope mounted just have to get to the range, so many guns so little time.

I'm hoping to do something similar with my 'salvaged' Lee-Enfield Carbine Mk.I. I can't restore it (too much missing or altered), but I would love to mount a scout scope on it. I found a Springfield Armory 2x IER scope w/ Leupold QD rings at the Phoenix gun show last year, so all I need is a Weaver-type mount that will attach to the barrel. My eyes aren't getting any younger, and a little magnification wouldn't hurt...

;>)

[Who is John Galt?]

My Number One, Mark III has a creepy, horrible one stage trigger.

I think a two-stage trigger was standard for the No.1 Mk.III & III*: maybe it ended up with a trigger from one of the early Lee-Metfords or Lee-Enfields; or perhaps someone modified the trigger. But archy's right - the No.4s (espescially the Mk.2 with the trigger mounted in the receiver) generally have decent triggers...

;>)

[Shooter 2.5]

That's why I described it as such. The trigger could be so mushy, I can't feel the resistance of the second stage. If I was a little more motivated, I would look to see how it's designed.

The previous owner was a shop that cosmetically rebuilds World War I and World War II firearms. I don't think there's any hint of cosmoline gumming the works.

I just checked again and it's a single stage. There's no hint of a second stage.