XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[yarddog]

I have several of the Ontario "spec plus" knives including the ones pictured.

I really like them, especially considering the prices are reasonable.

There is one, I think it is the SP-8 machete, which looks great and also feels nice in the hand but when actually used is not all that great. A plain old Military surplus machete (all I have seen are also made by Ontario) works much better.

[Squantos]

Figure the bull on a 1000 yard target is 36 inches thus your "goal" is perfect X's for all 20 rounds. I've never seen it in 20 minutes versus 20 seconds but it has occurred I'm told. With optics I would give that drill my best effort with a M1A supermatch loaded with 168gr Federal Match. I believe the drill would have to be "learned" as the 4th round fired in rapid fire will start to effect the accuracy as the barrel heats up. Thus if the rifle is consistent ,in it's degradation of accuracy as heat builds up, that level has to be known (where if at all do the flyers go every time ?).....which is the intent of Coopers quest IMO. Create the near perfect rifleman with skill and knowledge of his rifle , ammunition and the effects upon it at all times. Know what you rifle will do from cold shot to last round in 3rd magazine if need be.

The environmental conditions would almost have to be devoid of wind, mirage and high humidity thus I think that the range at Whittington Center at NRA's playing grounds near Raton New Mexico would be the place to try it. I also think that this drill could never be accomplished with a bolt gun unless one was a wizard from hell with such. Initial ideas for rifles include the SR-25 from Reed Knights Inc, a M1A, FN/FAL (maybe...last choice for me) Hk's PSG-1...A REAL one not a reworked Hk91. Just a few of the possibilities. Possibly an FPK or SVD ?? (I'll leave that choice to Archy as I have only plinked and done some formal DOD schooling and familiarization with those. Not bad rifles at all, I just think Archy has more data and experience with em.

Ya got my brain pan juices running on this idea. I live close to Mr G. David Tubb and see him at my local range sometimes so I'll run this by him next time I see him.

I believe it'll happen from a solid bench rest, sandbagged and maybe even using yer buddies Accupod gizmo for a fast solid return of the crosshairs....

My new game 'n goal to play with for a while......Thanks I had heard of this but forgot about it......20x20x20@1000..........tick ....tick.....tick.....:o) Stay Safe !

[yarddog]

I sure do like those military Mausers. I recall a few years ago a number of Persian Mausers made by BRNO were on the market but I never saw one.

The best made rifle I have ever seen was a military 1909 Argentine Mauser manufactured by DWM in that same year. Walter Craig in Selma, Alabama advertised some of them as unfired back in 1977, for I think, $150. I had my dealer order one and I was pleasantly surprised. In fact it was a work of art. It did not even have handling marks and included the original test target signed by Herr Ritzman. Unless he was fudging, "the distance was stated as 200M", he was one heck of a shot. He had made a sub two inch group using the iron sights.

[patton]

Wow. I would not even try it.

[Squantos]

Sadly I believe the game/goal of Coopers 20x20x20 @ 1000 is on the page / link below somewhere....

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=puzzle

Stay Safe !

[imfleck]

The manufacturers ought to follow the computer world's lead and call this thing the xm-32, and the next version will be called the xm-64, etc.

[PoorMuttly]

Muttly has decided to live in this Thread from now on.

Please notify his next-of-kin (although they'll know where to look anyway), and advise any interested party to place their correspondence within one of these fine Posts.

BTW...it has always been clear to me that weaponscraft, especially when a firearm is fired, is a revelatory demonstration of the forces in Nature, and what man must do to work with/overcome them, in order to accomplish a particular task -- a task which far exceeds his own physical ability. That they include the atheletic, human element, is further complication, challenge, and opportunity to learn, and achieve. I see great beauty in it.

This is why I ain't leavin'.

[Ford Fairlane]

in my book penetrating an engine block means cracking the water jacket

At 1000 yd most .338's would probably crack a small block chevy, but a big diesel block is another story, it would all depend on where you hit it

[PoorMuttly]

Hey...no fair luring poor little Muttly out to a Rat-Eating thread !

Kinda cold and lonely out there.

Glad I'm back...and I hope it never, ever happens again.

[Squantos]

I knew someone would bite the bait !.........:o)

Hope yer well Muttly !

Stay Safe !

[Travis McGee]

Don't worry Muttly, we'll keep you well fed!

I think if the 20-20-20-1000 is done, it'll be an AR-10 bull barrel variant (SR-25 etc) in .243 or 6.8mm, possibly .308 at the high end. Any "hotter" and you'll never make one second shots. Other calibers between .243 and .308 are possible, but the AR-10s can already be had in those calibers, so I think they will be the first tried in a serious way.

[Long Cut]

"Muttly has decided to live in this Thread from now on."

Hell, the good folks over at the Hobbit Hole thread completely filled a thread, their third of going-on-four (that was about 68,000 posts, BTW). There are a half-dozen "daily threads" here, plus more "continuing" threads and discussions than I can count.

Seems to me that us gunfolk could keep a thread going for a while. This one has become sort of a "local gun shop's front porch" for us lately.

If Mr. Robinson doesn't have a problem with it, I see no reason why we can't continue this discussion for an indefinite period. The info and knowledge here are without equal.

Hey, if FReepers can fill up threads talking about Hobbits, we can certainly do so talking about one of our most fundamental and cherished Rights as Americans, as well as technological advances relating to that Right.

[Jim Robinson]

I have absolutely no problem with an on-going daily gun rights thread. I do think it'd be better if a new thread is started each day though. The big threads can tax the database. We've been encouraging the other big thread people to start new threads more often.

[Shooter 2.5]

I'm missing the breakdown of the 1000 yard, 20, 20 etc. stuff. Can you give me the information on each number? I know it's 100 yards but what's the rest?
Thanks.

[PoorMuttly]

Whew !

Y' know...Muttly has a fear of abandonment since his owner Jack Elam temporarily lost him in a card game. But it turned out...EVERYBODY was cheating !!!

My first thought, upon hearing of the Cooper Challenge, was a barrel water-jacket. Also...a REALLY thick and fluted barrel, perhaps.

[Long Cut]

Whew! Thanks for the prompt answer!

We could use this thread to track the development of the new service rifle, and maybe we could start a daily "gun shop porch" thread.

Sadly, Ican't do it every day...Uncle Sam still owns me for a LOT of the time, and I only can come here when I have leave or liberty (and THEN, there are ...other concerns and duties which have priority).

What say all you lads? We have to give Muttly a place to live, after all.

[PoorMuttly]

"This is from the current Cooper's Commentaries, V-12 #2:

"Do any of you marksmen think it possible for a man to place 20 shots in a 20-inch circle in 20 seconds at a 1,000 yards? I posed this question to the range masters down at Camp Pendleton many years ago and was told that such a thing was not possible. During much of my life a four-minute mile was deemed to be impossible, to say nothing of motoring around on the surface of the moon.

"Obviously this rifle challenge is very, very hard. I have tried it twice myself and conclude that while the task is not impossible, it is nearly so.

"Therefore, I am undertaking the proposal of a perpetual prize in the form of a grand gold cup or bowl to be awarded to anyone who can bring off this stuntproperly supervised, of course. Administration of the effort will be complicated, but that we can handle. I hope to avoid commercialization, but where there is a will there is a wayand money in sufficient quantities can provide the will."

~~~Col. Jeff Cooper


613 posted on 02/17/2004 10:26:07 AM EST by Travis McGee"

(Muttly makes a very good "Gun Shop Porch dog," you know)

[Travis McGee]

The Cooper Challenge is to put 20 shots into a 20 inch circle in 20 seconds at 1000 yards.

I started a thread on it HERE on "The High Road.org" on the "Rifle Country" page. It's already on its second page, some sharp people are opining.

[Squantos]

Agree on all counts. The elements that must all come into play at the exact moment ones bullet launcher is activated are then only compounded by nature, mechanical means and and and and ......flinch aka physical abilities!

All I learned regarding accurate long range shooting over the years is moot somewhat as my abilities to employ those are less based not on my mileage but the sudden stops. Coyotes, Sod Poodles and paper aside to try such an exercise in shooting the likes of Coopers 20x20x20 @ 1000 is more fun than function.

Stay safe !

[Shooter 2.5]

Ouch. Now all I need is that 1000 yard backyard.