XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[Long Cut]

Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: no data
Barrel length: no data
Weight: 2.67 kg empty
Rate of fire: no data
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG)

The development of the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle was initiated by US Army in the 2002, when contract was issued to the Alliant Techsystems Co of USA to study possibilities of development of kinetic energy part of the XM29 OICW weapon into separate lightweight assault rifle, which could, in the case of success, replace the aging M16A2 rifles and M4A1 carbines in US military service. According to the present plans, the XM8 should enter full production circa 2005, if not earlier, several years before the XM-29 OICW. The XM8 (M8 after its official adoption) should become a standard next generation US forces assault rifle. It will fire all standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition, and, to further decrease the load on the future infantrymen, a new type of 5.56mm ammunition is now being developed. This new ammunition will have composite cases, with brass bases and polymer walls, which will reduce weight of the complete ammunition, while maintaining compatibility with all 5.56mm NATO weapons. Along with 20% weight reduction in the XM8 (compared to the current issue M4A1 carbine), this will be a welcome move for any infantryman, already overloaded by protective, communications and other battle equipment.

The XM8 will be quite similar to the "KE" (kinetic energy) part of the XM-29 OICW system, being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock of adjustable length, and a detachable carrying handle with the Picatinny rail.

Technical description. The XM8 is a derivative of the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, and thus it is almost similar to that rifle in design and functioning. The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines, the set of Picatinny rails on the forend, telescoped buttstock of adjustable length and a different scope, mounted on the Picatinny rail, built into the detachable carrying handle.

[Destructor]

"Very Pretty Colonel, but can they fight?"

This XM-8 is another example of the military trying to damned hard to please politicians-- who don't know shit about the military, and don't care!

[PoorMuttly]

"Very Pretty Colonel, but can they fight?" (Donald Sutherland, The Dirty Dozen)

...that has got to be the funniest war-picture line I have ever heard. You really made my day.

[archy]

When some small company comes out with the rifle that fires napalm rounds then I'll be quite pleased.

I'm working on something along those lines. I'll let you know once things have progressed beyond the prototype stage.

[archy]

Dragon's Breath.

You'll need a shotgun

Not necessarily, brother Muttly. Think excess.

[PoorMuttly]

Muttly like how archy think.

[archy]

"Very Pretty Colonel, but can they fight?" (Donald Sutherland, The Dirty Dozen)

...that has got to be the funniest war-picture line I have ever heard. You really made my day.

Oddball the tank commander of Kelly's Heroes''s *Oh man, I only ride in 'em, [tanks] I don't know what makes 'em run, comes mighty close, and has been adopted by an awful lot of treadhead officers and NCOs of my acquaintance.

Woof! WoofWoofWoof!... that's my other dog imitation....

[Ford Fairlane]

.338 Lap is great for longer ranges

kicks like a SOB & makes you deaf, but on both counts its still better than a .50 BMG

There was a british company making some really good sniper rifles in it a couple of years ago

I've got a company making some caseless ammo for me that duplicates the .257 Roberts, still experimental, but we'll see what happens

[PoorMuttly]

The prototype burned-out G.I.

He was truly hilarious.

Of course...he was that way before being drafted ! Hearing those lines brought back a LOT for me. I am in your debt (as usual...and enjoying every second!).

[B4Ranch]

.338 Blackhills 250 grain, .338 Jensen 270 grain, 50 BMG 647grain.

Just looking at the calibers and grain weights. It's my understanding that the heavier a bullet is the less it will be effected by crosswinds.

I do know that higher fps will defeat crosswinds to an extent, but I was always under the impression that weight was the critical factor. The .50 is 2.4 the weight of the .338

True---Yes/No

[Long Cut]

How about every single line uttered by Crapgame (Don Rickles) in that movie?

Redneck Soldier: "Damn, son! You smell lak a m'nure pahle!"

Crapgame: "Kinda makes ya homesick, don't it?!?"

Other Redneck Soldier: "It does, kinda, don't it, ol' buddy?"

Telly Savalas' Big Joe was great, too. I wish ALL NCO's were something like that...tough as nails, but always looking out for their men first.

As an aside, I always liked the weapons loadout the platoon used for their heist. Seems they had everything covered well...Thompsons for most, a sniper rifle, BAR's and Brownings for heavy work. Certainly, a better thought-out setup than one normally sees in war movies or shoot-em-up flicks.

[archy]

As an aside, I always liked the weapons loadout the platoon used for their heist. Seems they had everything covered well...Thompsons for most, a sniper rifle, BAR's and Brownings for heavy work. Certainly, a better thought-out setup than one normally sees in war movies or shoot-em-up flicks.

Oh yeah. Though some of their ammunition left a good deal to be desired.

Hey, let me have about 8 Thompson magazines....

[Long Cut]

Seeing that SOPMOD M-14 put me in mind of something DSA Arms

Seems that several companies are offering .308 cal options for CQB work, on the two best platforms available.

DSA has some fine-looking rifles...I might have to post some more "gun porn" from them.

[Ford Fairlane]

It depends on a few things

the variables you need to consider are: Projectile weight, velocity, cross sectional area (front), cross sectional area (side), wind speed & direction, and gravitational pull

bullet drop is a direct relationship between velocity and gravity, but larger diameter bullets (with the same initial energy) lose velocity quicker due to wind resistance

bullet drift is affected by velocity, weight, and wind speed/direction as well as the side area of the projectile (more area, more for the wind to grab)

the trick is to keep the velocity up as long as possible so there isnt any time to drift or drop, which means for long range accuracy you need as much initial energy as possible

at ranges over 1,000 yards the .50 BMG has a definite advantage, partly due to its greater weight, but also due to the greater energy it starts out with, but a .50 case necked down to take a .338 projectile would be better than either the .50 or the .338, as it would start with the same energy as the .50 but would move a LOT faster

if you look at all the non magnum military & commercial calibers smaller than .338, almost all of them have a point blank range (bullet drop + - 3") of between 250 and 300 yards

comparing the .223 with a point blank range of approx 275 yd and the .308 at approx 285 yd, if wind is an issue id go with the .308 because at that range the velocities are very close & the .308 wont drift as much due to its greater weight (generally 55 - 62 grains for the .223 vs 145 - 180 grains for the .308)

but then you get into the argument of heavier bullet / more energy / more kick / bigger weapon / heavier ammo load / etc. etc.

[Long Cut]

"...Fans of the FAL...can see the US T48 version in the Springfield Armory Museum..."

They can buy a semiauto-only version from DSA as well...

Agree totally about the Thompson...too bad it was so heavy. Nice to know that the .45 ACP is coming back as a SMG round (see the HK UMP-45).

[Ford Fairlane]

a few years ago steyer made a rifle that used caseless ammo, the projectile was a 4 or 5 grain flechette

that thing shot like a laser, i was at one of the test sessions & they were shredding tin cans at 1/2 mile, just shows what velocity can do

[Travis McGee]

I posted a version of that "SFs want 6.8 Uppers" reply I posted here over on Glock Talk, very good thread. Somebody private mailed me, saying he has been working on the 6.8mm project for several years. His is what he posted on the Glock Talk "SFs Want 6.8mm" thread:

"The ideal military combat ammunition should provide both acceptable accuracy and adequate terminal performance out to at least 300 meters and preferably to about 600 meters. Ideal accuracy should be at least 1.5 MOA and preferably closer to 1 MOA. The bullet should penetrate at least 12 to 15 inches, with early yaw initiating within 1 or 2 inches of initial penetration. Fragmentation should occur at all ranges from zero to at least 300 meters. The bullet should be able to penetrate intermediate barriers such as automobile windshields, glass windows, building walls, and soft body armor. The ammunition should be light and compact enough for the soldier to carry an adequate supply of ammunition in magazines of at least a 25 round capacity. The rifle should be similar in size, weight, and ergonomics to the proven M4/M16 weapons. Recoil should be manageable to allow full auto fire when necessary, along with the more usual rapid, aimed semi-automatic fire. We can see from the above that .22 caliber rifle and carbine ammunition is probably too small for routine combat use, while .30 caliber ammunition is too large.

"The United States made two major missteps in its search for the ideal combat rifle caliber. In the late 1920’s, John Garand originally designed the M1 rifle in .276 caliber for which Frankford Arsenal provided the new ammunition that used a 125 gr bullet at approximately 2700 f/s. Ordnance trials determined that Garand’s .276 caliber T3E2 rifle was an ideal combat weapon, however, development of the .276 rifle was halted in 1932 because of the large remaining stocks of old .30-06 caliber M1906 150 gr FMJ ammunition left over from WWI and the U.S. military threw away an opportunity to adopt the superior performing .276 caliber 125 gr ammunition. Following WWII the United States military again made a colossal weapon system selection error when it rejected the British .280 caliber 140 gr bullet along with the T48/FAL rifle and instead selected the 7.62 x 51 mm cartridge and the T44/M14 rifle. In hindsight, we can hypothesize that a .280 (7 mm) FAL would probably have been an ideal combat rifle and would likely still be in use today had it been chosen. Continued ammunition development has confirmed the efficacy of these earlier attempts to develop ideal combat rifle ammunition and validated that the optimal combat rifle caliber is likely to be around .270 to .280 caliber.

"The SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge) program, has built on this historical data in developing the 6.8 x 43 mm SPC, which offers .277 caliber, 115 gr Match bullets fired at approximately 2650 f/s, yielding approximately 1 MOA accuracy and terminal performance significantly superior to that of all 5.56 mm ammunition currently available. Primary focus during cartridge design was on combat reliability, accuracy, flight characteristics out to 500 meters, and terminal performance. During load development, 6 mm, 6.5 mm, 7 mm, and 7.62 mm SPC variants were tested prior to selection of the best performing version -- the 6.8 mm SPC.

"Current accuracy, terminal ballistic, and operator testing indicates that the 6.8 x 43 mm SPC cartridge is extremely accurate and offers superior terminal performance and improved incapacitation capability from CQB to medium ranges (0 to 500 meters) as compared to ALL available 5.56 mm ammunition."

[Travis McGee]

I'll bet that within a month, most of the top 100 rifle marksmen in the USA will have heard the Cooper Challenge (20x20x20x1000) and will soon be trying it out on the sly, to see how close then can come.

I hope and trust an American will nail it first.

[B4Ranch]

At 1000 yds would a .338 still penetrate an engine block. 2nd question, "penetrate an engine block" means exactly what?

[yarddog]

I think most people really mean that it cracks the block or goes through the outer cast iron casing.

It would take a really powerful one to go clean through the block!

[yarddog]

I wonder how the current .223 bullets would perform in a slightly larger case with greater velocity, maybe back up to what the old 55 grain bullets had.

It would require a longer barrel, at least 20 inches.

I bet they could come up with a 70 grain bullet which still penetrates but would upset like the new Russian ones are supposed to do.

It would seem to solve a lot of problems while still reamining fairly light with light recoil.