XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[archy]

While I'm a military member, my job does not require the carrying of personal weapons (unfortunately...there's been times I wished it DID, being unarmed in a war is disquieting), but I've long been highly interested in them, from swords all the way to toys like the XM-8.

Kewl! So if by chance an XM8, hopefully refined to M8 standard by then, should come your way as either an issue piece or a personal purchase item, what sort of sword do ou figure would make a good partner item to go with it.

Sure, a bayonet or fighting knife is the most probably useful companion item for one such, but it doesn't hurt to have either the skills or attitude that goes with the wear of edged cold steel for defence, whether silent methods are preferred over noisy ones or should ammo be limited for expenditure on any but the most high-profile hostile targets.

Plenty of room for varied opinion here too, likely based on wide variances of training and maybe a personal experience or two. I've yet to actually use a sword in a lethal confrontation, but once swung an entrenching tool during an interpersonal dispute that came pretty close.

[archy]

I always get a kick out of that picture. He has to be wearing every piece of equipment and clothing he was issued.

You reckon the other guys took pleasure in knotting shoelaces, removing buttons, or slicing the inside bottom of pockets of any gear the unit REMF had left back in the office or barracks? Anything he didn't want tinkered with, he'd have had to haul around with him, and it looks like he's got most of what he would have been signed for there.

[Squantos]

The only SWAG I'm making this year is that the Beretta M9 is reaching it's service life and the contract is supposedly going to be put back up for bid. I am just guessing but SIG has just come out with the GSP 1911A1 Clones as has Short 'n Whimpy Inc (S&W). I am thinking Uncle Sugar is going back to the 45 ACP and John Brownings best design in the near future and S&W and SIG want to be ready to submit a sample with all the bugs worked out by us civy shooters. (Every get shot in the civies ?)

I've not followed the XM8 process so I'm not even gonna guess on that. I think the 6.8 SPC has a good chance as does the AK variant of the AR that takes AK Mags from Reed Knight's little shop of horrors.

Keep me posted and Stay Safe out there !

[Long Cut]

Actually, I already have it...

The Ontario Cutlery "Black Wind" katana. It features a 20-inch chisel point blade and a ten-inch handle suitable for one or two handed use. It is all one piece of high-carbon steel covered with a polymer coating (excepting the edge, which on mine is shaving-sharp). The scabbard is solid Kydex polymer with an almost infinite array of mounting/carrying options. Oh, and it's also only about a hundered bones, from Brigade Quartermasters.

I have about a half-dozen of Ontario's latest products, and I've been satisfied with every one. Their "Raider Bowie" travels on P-3s with me at all times, because I know for a fact it will get me out of a downed aircraft if need be, and resharpen easily afterwards. Great stuff, at superb prices. Not pretty, but then, who cares?

[Long Cut]

The "Raider Bowie" from Ontario...

1/4-inch-thick steel and a near-indestructible handle on that one. Plus, it would, I'm sure, be capable of inflicting horrendous wounds if called upon to do so.

[PoorMuttly]

Here's some stuff I just came across :

re: .223 -

" The soldier's satisfaction turned South in the Somilia days, when it took multiple hits from SS109 projectiles, to bring down a 110 lb. Somilian militiaman that was hopped up on an amphetamine type plant, called "khat" or "khack", memory does not serve. I remember one instance where one of the bad guys soaked up between 8 and 11 hits before he cashed it in. One of the Delta boys that was awarded the CMH postumously did not trust the 109 round, and went into the fight with an M14. He and two others held the line literally to the last cartridge."

re: 6.8 SPC -

"This is a reply to the guess work all the supposed smart people are doing on the 6.8x43mm. It would appear that our operational security is working real well. But here are a few bits for you guys to chew on. Its not made from a .25 Rem. case, or reforming .223 brass, how do I know, I designed it. It has nearly the same flight path as the 7.62x51mm M80 ball round out to 650 meters. Delivers approx 4 times the energy on target at 300 meters compared to a SS109 round. The gel block tests are awesome. It drops a 150-300 lbs feral hogs like an axe, also works great on whitetails.

My first choice was 7mm projectiles, but the users wanted something with a flatter trajectory, closer to the 5.56. Tested all calibers 6mm, 6.5mm, .25, 6.8 (.270 for Americans, oh actually the Chinese came up with the 6.8x63mm in the 1930s), didn't do much testing in .30, because it would only be an American M43 cartridge. This was not a private endeavourer nor a fully sanctioned government project, just users and a gun builder making a better product for our guys on the ground, in harms way."

It was also pointed out that the case head is the same size as the .30-30, only rimless !

[archy]

It was also pointed out that the case head is the same size as the .30-30, only rimless !

Hey, that offers some real interesting possibilities, doesn't it.... But amusingly enough, I think I'd like to begin my own tinkering along the 6,8mm lines with a single shot. Or maybe an over-under, either with a rimfire .22 or the S&W .500 in the other barrel....

[PoorMuttly]

..or a Savage 24F...6.8 over 3"12ga.

Yum.

Can mine be a Drilling..?!...or do I need triple triggers....which, of course...I do.

...while we're at it...3 1/2" would be nice..with choke tubes...

[archy]

Those'll do nicely. I've long carried an Ontario pilot-survival knife, the short little 5-inch bowie. I pitch the *sharpening* stone from the pocket for it on the sheath and pop in a cutdown magnesium firestarter instead. The one I've got now was an issue *gift* dated 1968, pretty well beat up, but it works.

Rather than a traditional Arkansas/Texas Bowie, I tend to prefer the Gurkha Khukuri, which I've also got decades of practice and familiarity with.

So far as a real full-length sword, I've seen the Ontario *Black Wands* used by some as both fighter and near-machete-much like the cutdown cavalry sabers issued as *Machete, substitute* during the early days of WWII in the Pacifac, to Coastwatchers and Marine Raiders, among others. I've made do with an 18-inch blade Blackie Collins d-handle machete, but more as tool than fighter. If it came right down to that, I think I'd prefer an entrenching tool in a real fight [BTDT] rather than the shorty machete, I might feel otherwise if I was more used to one with a bit more length.

But I'd like to do some serious practice with the sword/saber, and shorty shovels aren't much for ceremonial presentations, either. Maybe after I've seen the Mel Gibson Christos movie I'll have a taste for Gladius Iberius again, but I think their time has come and gone....

[PoorMuttly]

Checked the Brigade site...Ontario has a very nice 8" Bowie with the narrower blade I like...penetration over belly...more a spear point...just used to it...and a better "pig-sticker" in the boar fields...God forbid it comes to that ! I have reason to believe the narrower (not in thickness!), long blades do good work on heavy leather jackets...layers of sweatshirts...and layers of illicit anesthetic. Ontario actually highlights that it does NOT have a lanyard hole...which I intend to remedy promptly.

Sure like your magnesium/stone substitution, archy. Now I like that sheath!

[Old Professer]

This is the first picture I haven't been able to load in less than 5 seconds and I'm using double-speed Comcast broadband, what gives?????????

The properties all point back to FR and not an outside link.

[SAMWolf]

You reckon the other guys took pleasure in knotting shoelaces, removing buttons, or slicing the inside bottom of pockets of any gear the unit REMF had left back in the office or barracks?

I can imagine he'd be just the type of guy who'd get that treatment too.

[Squantos]

Randall 14 is my 1st and long time choice with a real nice Parang made in the PI from an old leaf spring for going native. Goes well with my fire piston and bone shirt !

Great Read Archy....You do a good job here if no ones told ya lately.

Stay safe !

[PoorMuttly]

...y' know...that Raider sure looks powerful..the extra blade weight helps...and now I notice how pointed it is...sold.

Even though the handle is probably "indestructable" (although Muttly usually finds a way...), I find plastic gets slippery (had to replace GP Pachmayer grips)..and for all its faults...those ol' leather washers do fine for usin', as does stag antler, or the Muttly favorite...sword-wrap, with metal cord. Suppose though that the way to go is the archy-o/u survival forearm cord..which is also a handy supply of very useful cord.

[B4Ranch]

When some small company comes out with the rifle that fires napalm rounds then I'll be quite pleased.

[PoorMuttly]

Dragon's Breath.

You'll need a shotgun.

[Travis McGee]

Thanks guys, but I just have a lot of OPINIONS. Archy, Squantos, River Rat and the others have the KNOWLEDGE.

This has been a great running thread for rifle dope!

[Squantos]

Take a peek at Ronnie Barretts "payload" upper for the 82A1. Albeit not your napalm ya seek..... it's a damn nice rig for good terminal velocity !

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/payload.pdf

Stay Safe B4ranch !

[archy]

Sure like your magnesium/stone substitution, archy. Now I like that sheath!

I've also seen one reworked by the removal of the small pouch to have a nuch longer one added, that runs the full length on the blade from tip to hilt, and in which a 5-inch section of fine cut mill bastard file was carried for touching up utility blades/machetes/entrenching tools.

I've also known some folks who carry a Swiss Army knife in the pilot knife pouch, and I bet some other goodies variable with user preference have turned up in there from time to time too.

-archy-/-

[archy]

Thanks guys, but I just have a lot of OPINIONS. Archy, Squantos, River Rat and the others have the KNOWLEDGE.

There's a lot of opinion and personal preference, hopefully born of experience, among my musings on the subject, along with a few variations on the order of *wouldn't it be neat if this did *this* AND *that*....

I've picked tsuch knowledge as I have up along the way from others who've pointed me on the right path when I was wandering off on a dead-end alley or lost trail, and the price for that assistance is to share it with the next pilgrim and make their path a little better marked.

And so far as that goes, you've got some serious experience yourself, naturally enough resulting in some different attitudes and opinions than mine, since our experiences have happily not been identical. The other side of that coin is that you've also exhibited some pretty fair thoughts about what works and what doesnt, and lean real heavilly on those tools that nicely get the job done. That Randall of Squantos goes in that category, too.