PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION BAN - THE BETRAYAL IS NOW COMPLETE [BARF ALERT - ANTI-GOP PROPAGANDA]

NewsWithViews.com ^ | May 9, 2003 | By David Brownlow

[nunya bidness]

I didn't but I am now. Thanks for reminding me. I will read it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Just someone that can read a loophole that is a mile wide"

Well...when I make the point that there should be wiggle room in the legislation to allow for PBA's in case of a medical emergency threatening the mother's life, the argument is that such cases are few, and very far between, or even non-existent.

When I point out that the ONLY PBA permitted by this bill is when the mother's life is in danger, you call it a mile wide loophole...which is it then?

How can you call it a mile wide loophole when the ONLY circumstance under which the procedure is allowed is statistically non-existent?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Hey!

[nunya bidness]

Dude, do yourself a favor and get over your ego. You've got a good heart and head but petty flamewars are beneath you.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Petty flame wars?

Have you bothered to look at what I was responding to?

Get over my "ego"?

Yeah...that's not a flame...

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Thank you - please do. He's got to be doing something right; he's got the pro-aborts in hysterics.

Good night, and thanks for responding.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Hey! : )

[nunya bidness]

Well...when I make the point that there should be wiggle room in the legislation to allow for PBA's in case of a medical emergency threatening the mother's life, the argument is that such cases are few, and very far between, or even non-existent.

As has been pointed out to you on this very thread, there are no medical emergencies that would spare the life of the mother provided a PBA is available.

Moreover, do you honestly believe that a mother that cared for her unborn child wouldn't foresake her own life for her child? I don't.

Luis, this is limpwristed legislation that does nothing to further the cause of life and advances the rhetoric of life while comfortably advancing death with a caveat to Roe V Wade as well. Not something to be proud of in the least.

If you want to advance an agenda make the agenda clear and succinct. This is neither.

[honeygrl]

"I've always believed that abortion is an act of pure selfishness and lack of love"

I totally agree with that. I have also seen another nasty side to it. My neice (in-law) got pregnant when she was 16 and her mother flat out insisted that she have an abortion (at 3mths along!) or she wasn't allowed to come back home. The girl had made quite a few bad choices and was in a position of either having to return home, live with her dad (who basically just used her as a free babysitter to his 2 new kids with his new wife in a small 2 bedroom home where she had to sleep on the couch), or become a ward of the state. She did NOT want to have an abortion though. In fact the entire family, excluding her insane mom, did not want her to. We all offered to let her come live with us as long as she needed to but we were all out of state so the court wouldn't allow it. She desperately wanted to go back to her mom's home because that's where she grew up and where both of the siblings were that she was very close to. So, in order to go home she had to have the abortion. Everyone was heartbroken over it except her idiot mother. For the rest of her life she's going to have to live with the decision too and I know one day it's going to eat her up inside, if it doesn't already. In her mind though she had no other choice. As far as I'm concerned, the blood is on her mother's hands for pushing her into it. I can't imagine making one of my children choose between me and their baby. It's just heartless.

[honeygrl]

" Just someone that can read a loophole that is a mile wide "

Just the fact that you consider it a loophole a mile wide even though it's been explained on this thread a dozen times makes me think you have a reading comprehension problem or just WANT to find something to complain about. Or maybe you just have a personal grudge with Luis? Either way, it's not a mile wide loophole.

[Mo1]

In her mind though she had no other choice.

I guess her idiot mom never heard of adoption?

What a sad story

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Good post, honeygrl. I think, contrary to what people assume, that a lot of girls who have abortions believe that they have lost their support systems (the father probably doesn't want the baby, she may have no parental support, and she's not able to see herself financially taking care of a child), and many of them are not equipped to deal with that. They're just not old enough, established, or mature enough to go it alone - and that's when desperation hits.

Encouraging adoption as an option for people who feel backed into a corner is one of the best things we could do, in my opinion.

[nunya bidness]

Just the fact that you consider it a loophole a mile wide even though it's been explained on this thread a dozen times makes me think you have a reading comprehension problem or just WANT to find something to complain about.

(14) Pursuant to the testimony received during extensive legislative hearings during the 104th, 105th, and 107th Congresses, Congress finds and declares that:

(E) The physician credited with developing the partial-birth abortion procedure has testified that he has never encountered a situation where a partial-birth abortion was medically necessary to achieve the desired outcome and, thus, is never medically necessary to preserve the health of a woman.

Or maybe you just have a personal grudge with Luis? Either way, it's not a mile wide loophole.

Sec. 1531. Partial-birth abortions prohibited

`(a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the date of enactment of this chapter.

See the lies? It's a game of inches rather than yards. It's falacious sophistry and lame. Want to see what leadership looks like:

Anyone who knowingly performs a third trimester abortion, for whatever reason, is a murderer and will be charged as such. The sentence will be carried out at the will and descretion of the court.

That's leadership.

[Mo1]

Anyone who knowingly performs a third trimester abortion, for whatever reason, is a murderer and will be charged as such. The sentence will be carried out at the will and descretion of the court.

And what do you think the chances are of a Bill with that in it would pass through Congress?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"As has been pointed out to you on this very thread, there are no medical emergencies that would spare the life of the mother provided a PBA is available."

So, in other words, as per this bill, there are no circumstances under which PBA's are allowed at all...are there?

So then what exactly are you bitching about?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Anyone who knowingly performs a third trimester abortion, for whatever reason, is a murderer and will be charged as such. The sentence will be carried out at the will and descretion of the court."

That's not leadership, that's you typing on a internet forum.

You're still not clear on the differences between "talking" and "doing"...are you?

[Luis Gonzalez]

CHAPTER 74--PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS

`Sec.

`1531. Partial-birth abortions prohibited.

`Sec. 1531. Partial-birth abortions prohibited

`(a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the date of enactment of this chapter.

`(b) As used in this section--

`(1) the term `partial-birth abortion' means an abortion in which--

`(A) the person performing the abortion deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head- first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and

[Luis Gonzalez]

I don't care how many times you try and ignore the remainder of the bill, it will not go away.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Moreover, do you honestly believe that a mother that cared for her unborn child wouldn't foresake her own life for her child? I don't."

And you get to make the choice for her?

[omegatoo]

That said, I think the Democrats had a lot more to lose from a high-profile, bare-knuckled fight over infanticide and PBA than did the GOP.

I am on the verge of agreeing with you on this one, but not quite.

The environment in which this fight would take place is changing by the minute. America is swinging back to the reasonable and conservative from the decadance and liberal-press-led propaganda of the 90's. Even stupid people are beginning to realize that the mainstream media cannot be trusted with the truth, and even they are not automatically accepting the spoon-fed drivel they used to fight for during the Clinton years.

The conservatives could not have gotten this far 3 years ago. They can probably win this battle now, but I think the democrats can still inflict a lot of damage. I think the battle will be better won after W has been re-elected. I predict that given Republican pick-ups in the Senate in 04, which I think (hope, pray) will be significant, we will see stronger legislation than this proposed, because the odds of a Bush appointee sitting on the Supreme Court by the time it gets up there will be greatly increased.

In the meantime, I have written to Senator Santorum suggesting some minor changes to the wording of the bill to eliminate some potential loopholes, and it probably wouldn't hurt for more people to do the same. My suggestions were
1. To change "outside of the mother's body" to "outside of the mother's uterus",and
2. Eliminate or move "deliberately and intentionally" so that it cannot be used as an excuse, as in,"I didn't intentionally deliver the baby past the naval, so this law doesn't apply".

I can't contact Congressman Steve Chabot yet, as he's on that system where you can't e-mail him unless you live in his district, but I plan to call his office if I'm ever awake during normal people hours.

Anyway, the bill is not perfect, and it is not the end, but right now I think we should take what we can get, and then go back for the rest.

O2

Chabot is here: Chabot
and Santorum is here Santorum