TSA handgun contract draws ire of firearms makers.

GovExec.com ^ | July 16,2003 | Richard H.P, Sia

[heckler]

Through a series of missteps, the Transportation Security Administration has run afoul of the world's leading gun manufacturers in an attempt to award a three-year, $5 million contract for the semiautomatic handguns it plans to give commercial airline pilots to defend their cockpits.

The agency drew the heaviest fire after it appeared to bow to pressure from the office of Rep. J. D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., to drop a possible deal with the Austrian gunmaker Glock and focus instead on buying guns from venerable Smith & Wesson, an American-owned firm based in Hayworth's district.

[El Laton Caliente]

Some of our 2nd supporters over here need to spend a little time over at the gun message boards. ;^)

[RogueIsland]

It is once again an American owned company, and is going to great strides to rehabilitate their image.

They really are. They had reps at a local shop/range here, and they brought all their toys for everyone to actually test fire -- including the 1911 and the S&W .50 Magnum. It's definitely past time to welcome them back into the family.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

My next purchase will be a Sig, probably in .40.
I own two Glocks, a 9mm and .40. The .40 jammed tight on about the 20th round at the range. A smith in St. Paul solved this problem and also lightened the trigger from an grabby 8 pounds down to 3-4 pound pull.

[Redbob]

"... the agreement lives. "Unenforced", they say. Sounds like an invitation to enforce it at a later date."

You're exactly right!
Talk to a rep at S&W, and thye'll not exactly admit it, but thye've never repudiated that agreement.

F-'em!

[absalom01]

"...the Glock is not a sidearm to be carried casually."

No offense intended, but just what sidearm can be?

Myself, I don't have a dog in this particular fight, as I'm old fashioned: M1911A1 is the only pistol that I trust my life with. Otherwise, the Glock is a fine gun, and in all these years, I've never had, or seen, one discharge without the trigger was pulled by a human finger.

I hope you'll pardon one more comment on your post: " If they could get as much practice in as the average police officer, I'd feel better about it...". I'm FAR from being anti-cop, but one of my pet peeves is the level of marksmanship skill of the average patrol officer. There are many, many well trained, well motivated, highly skilled cops out there (I've had the honor of training with some of them), but too many of the younger 'average' guys are really appallingly bad. The point is, the pilots will almost by definition (they're volunteers, and taking a lot of effort to get certified for this) be well above the level of the 'average' officer.

So, IMHO, the Glock would be a fine choice from a tactical point of view. That said, I still think it's good public policy for the government to "buy American".

Just my 2c.

[Redbob]

"I thought the S&W boycott was over now that it is under new management that refuted the Klinton deal?"

Think so?
Ask 'em!

They NEVER repudiated that deal!

[stevio]

have a friend that just picked up his new 500 Smith and Wesson. He shot 100 rounds the first session.

Your friend must have deep pockets. That .50 cal S&W ammo is like $2.25 a round!

[Space Wrangler]

Yeah, our local shop is supposed to have a big S&W day some time in the fall. Like I said, I've never been all that crazy about S&W's, but I do own a 686 .357 that I like pretty well. I also have a Dan Wesson .357 that is nice, but I don't know if S&W was, or still is affiliated with the Dan Wesson models. The Dan Wesson is probably 25 yrs old, and is a nice shooting pistol, but I'm not sure if they're even still around. The new owners are working very hard at getting the customers back, and like you, I think it's time to welcome them back into the fold.

[FreedomPoster]

>>the Glock is not a sidearm to be carried casually

I keep hearing this, and wonder how much folks who say it have carried Glocks. In reality, no firearm should be carried *casually*. Carrying regularly, however, is A Good Thing, and is not an unsafe activity with Glocks.

Zillions of police agencies use Glocks, and I don't hear of a lot of ND's. You pull the trigger, it goes bang. Doesn't seem too difficult to deal with. You carry it in a hard holster that covers the trigger guard completely. You observe the Four Rules of Firearms Handling, and you fully engage the safety between your ears.

[FreedomPoster]

>>It is a military weapon, not a cop weapon. Period.

I'd be curious if you could explain the distiction. I'm not sure I see it.

[stevio]

If the S&W deal with the devil was not "officially" repudiated, the .50 cal handgun sure is a slap in the face to the anti-gunners.

[ASA Vet]

The only times either my Glock 23, or my sons Glock 22 have jammed was due to underpowered
handloads given to us by a "I don't like Glocks because they jam," whiner.
We gave up, pulled the bullets, dumped the powere, and reused the primed cartriges. No more problems.
We've never had a jam using factory, full power hand loads,
or "extra zing" hand loads.

Did your gun smith determine the problem with yours?

[snopercod]

Why not a revolver? How many shots do they think they are going to need up there?

[harpseal]

Sig Firearms are made in NH and Maine. Ruger firearms are made in the USA as are several other brands. I tend to agree that a revolver is probably teh best for cockpit defense given the ranges involved and the reliability issues in very close quaters.

[heckler]

You could put put a sling on it like the one you can get with the new S&W .500 comped hunter;)

[Poohbah]

Now, why in the world should the US Govt. buy products made by its own citizens who pay TAXES and vote??

Smith and Wesson was the first (and, thankfully, ONLY) gun manufacturer to use the French strategy on those illegitimate lawsuits over criminal misuse of their product.

Specifically, they surrendered.

They've been in the RKBA doghouse ever since.

[Dead Corpse]

They NEVER repudiated that deal!

Bravo Sierra.

[cc2k]

S&W was sold to new American owners last year. They have withdrawn from the odious agreement with the Feds that resulted in the boycott.

It is time to support the new owners and buy S&W.

You are correct.

So many people don't understand the main purpose of a boycott, or the fact that you have to end it when you've won. Saying, "Because you did this, I'll never buy your product again, ever," isn't effective. There's no incentive to change or fix the problem. The correct stance is, "As long as you continue to do this, I won't buy your product," and once the problem is resolved, you should reward the improvement.

[Shooter 2.5]

He's a reloader and cast his own bullets.

It's not a big deal for him to shoot in excess of a 100 rounds with 454 Casulls, 475 Casulls or 500 Limbaughs.

I'm constantly amazed.

[Poohbah]

I think CP's point is that it is a weapon where the "safety/combat readiness" decisions went as far as possible to "combat readiness."

I like the Glock, but I have to agree with Chancellor Palpatine and Charles Martel--it is NOT a weapon for carriage by less-than-excruciatingly-well-trained persons. I had eight years of weapons safety training beaten into me by the Marine Corps--but I wouldn't run out and buy a Glock without spending an entire weekend performing the Manual of Arms (Pistol) with it.