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To: irish guard
I still think there is something really, really bad that the French are trying to hide. No one would be surprised if they had sold parts, or even uranium, to Iraq. Heck, we all think they did something like that anyway.

But Chirac is absolutely irrational about his opposition. I thought it strange at the time. They were way too obvious in their opposition to the US...not the usual sneering criticism and refusal to cooperate, but actively trying to get allies who would oppose us.

Remember when Chirac told the Eastern Europeans to shut up, and threatened them with not being able to join the EU? That was not smooth diplomacy, but rather a ham-handed threat.

I still think that there is something really bad yet to be discovered, and the French are in it up to their eyeballs.

86 posted on 07/13/2003 7:28:44 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple
I still think that there is something really bad yet to be discovered, and the French are in it up to their eyeballs.

They sure are. I thought it odd Chirac went to such an extreme to protect Saddam. He was literally obsessed with protecting him - knowing he was a butcher.
Maybe they were lovers. Heh heh heh.

87 posted on 07/13/2003 7:35:22 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Anti-American liberals are inbread Notsosmartso's.)
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To: Miss Marple
I'm with you on this. Everything you say makes sense.

I don't know if there will be a full-fledged Watergate on this, however, because for that you need the press on your side. The New York Times ran full-page headlines for weeks even when there was no new news to report, and they certainly won't do that to help Bush. But Bush has managed to work around the liberal press monopoly very skillfully, and hopefully he will do so again.
97 posted on 07/13/2003 7:59:43 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Miss Marple
I still think there is something really, really bad that the French are trying to hide. No one would be surprised if they had sold parts, or even uranium, to Iraq.

It's not like they haven't sold Iraq entire reactors on more than one occasion, and provided enriched fuel as well.

The Israelis bombed the French Osirek reactor, and destroyed its replacement right while it was aboard a ship in a French port.... just another reason why the French support the PLO.

1975 : (IRAQ BUYS URANIUM FROM FRANCE) When Iraq purchased the uranium from France in 1975, Baghdad agreed to place it under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency, a Vienna-based nonproliferation watchdog group. IAEA inspectors perform tests on Iraq's stash twice yearly.- "When Will Saddam Get the Bomb? Not nearly so soon as the Bush Administration claims, "By William R. Doerner, December 10, 1990 via TIME Capsule, The Evolution of the Iraqi Threat, http://www.time.com/time/classroom/article/0,12422,235482,00.html

Late 1970s to 1982 : (IRAQ OBTAINS YELLOWCAKE FROM PORTUGAL) National Laboratory of Industrial Engineering (LNETI) (Portugal) Yellowcake Supplied without safeguards - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1976 through early 1980s : (IRAQ OBTAINS URANIUM FROM ITALY ) National Committee for Nuclear Energy (CNEN), Italy, provides 2.6% enriched uranium; technical assistance; negotiated 10-year agreement to assist in atomic energy, including reactor physics - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1976 to 1981 : (IRAQ OBTAINS HIGHLY ENRICHED URANIUM FROM FRANCE FOR FUEL; FRENCH PROVIDE OSIREK REACTOR) CERBAG (France) Highly enriched uranium (HEU) reactor fuel; built Osiraq reactor - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1976 to 1989 : (IRAQ OBTAINS EQUIPMENT FROM ITALY) Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL) (Italy) provides Iraq with Four commercial contracts with shipments of major equipment; $3 billion to $5 billion of unauthorized loans to Iraq, including at least $920 million of export credit guarantees and over 2,500 letters of credit ; they were indicted by US federal authorities, February 1991 - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1977 : (IRAQ OBTAINS LABS & HOT CELL COMPLEX FOR DISSOLVING FUEL RODS FROM ITALIAN SNIA TECHINT) SNIA Techint (formerly SNIA Visacosa) with Ansaldo Mechanico Nucleare (Italy) Delivered four labs (fuel fabrication lab, chemical engineering lab, radioisotope lab, and materials-testing lab); hot cell complex for dissolving fuel rods - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1977 : (IRAQ BEGINS INSTALLING FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR) In 1977 the country began installing a French Osirak-model nuclear reactor, ostensibly for research projects, at El-Tuwaitha, 10 1/2 miles southwest of Baghdad. Four years later, convinced that the reactor's real purpose was to produce plutonium to be chemically reprocessed and used for weapons, Israel bombed the facility to rubble. After the Osirak attack, Iraq tried to realize its ambitions by buying bomb- grade material from underground suppliers. - "When Will Saddam Get the Bomb? Not nearly so soon as the Bush Administration claims, "By William R. Doerner, December 10, 1990 via TIME Capsule, The Evolution of the Iraqi Threat, http://www.time.com/time/classroom/article/0,12422,235482,00.html.

Late 1970s : (WMD : NUCLEAR DEVELOPMENT : IRAQ IMPORTS ITEMS FROM FRANCE SGN (Societe Generale pour les Techniques Nouvelles) (France) ) Auxiliary facilities (effluent treatment station and hot cell laboratory) - in other words, Facilities for extracting plutonium from spent reactor fuel - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

Late 1970s to 1982 : (IRAQ OBTAINED UO2 FROM NIGER'S ONAREM (Office National des Resources Minieres))- see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1979 through 1980s : (CNEN OF BRAZIL SUPPLIES IRAQ WITH NUCLEAR RESEARCH MATERIALS & PROVIDES ASSISTANCE WITH OSIREK REACTOR) CNEN – (Brazil) Nuclear materials and equipment for laboratory tests; assistance in Osirak nuclear reactor - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

JUNE 7, 1981 : (OPERATION OPERA : ISRAEL DESTROYS THE FRENCH-BUILT OSIREK REACTOR IN IRAQ) Destruction of the Iraqi nuclear reactor. With Iraq's programs to develop nuclear arms moving into advanced stages, Israel launches a successful air attacks , destroying the Iraqi Osirak nuclearreactor.

Iraq is undeterred and keeps working.... even trying to find domestic sources of uranium:

1983 : (BRAZIL'S NMRD PROSPECTS FRO URANIUM IN IRAQ) Nuclebras Mineral Resources Department (Brazil) Prospected to find uranium in Iraq Prospected for 15 days - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1984 : (BRAZIL'S CETEM ANALYZES URANIUM ORE FROM IRAQI MINE) Mineral Technology Center (CETEM) (Brazil) Analyzed uranium ore from Abu Shakir mine- see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

1985 : (BRAZIL'S MINERART EVALUATES IRAQI URANIUM RESERVE) Minerart (created by former Nuclebras employees) (Brazil) Evaluated Abu Shakir uranium reserve for Iraqi Geological Survey - see http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iraq_N_imports_chron.html

NOVEMBER 19-22, 1990 : (IAEA CONDUCTS TESTS ON IRAQ'S STASH OF FRENCH URANIUM)- "When Will Saddam Get the Bomb? Not nearly so soon as the Bush Administration claims, "By William R. Doerner, December 10, 1990 via TIME Capsule, The Evolution of the Iraqi Threat, http://www.time.com/time/classroom/article/0,12422,235482,00.html

DECEMBER 1990 early : (IAEA CERTIFIES THAT TESTS ON IRAQ'S STASH OF FRENCH URANIUM SHOWED "NO CHANGE" IN AMOUNT OR PURITY OF URANIUM") When Iraq purchased the uranium from France in 1975, Baghdad agreed to place it under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency, a Vienna-based nonproliferation watchdog group. IAEA inspectors perform tests on Iraq's stash twice yearly. Last week the agency certified that the latest round, conducted from Nov. 19 to 22, showed ‘‘no change"in either the amount or the purity of the uranium. Should the Iraqis elect to tamper with the uranium in the future, U.S. experts estimate, the process of turning it into a bomb would take a minimum of several months. Since an IAEA inspection might occur within that period, a diversion could be detected before an Iraqi nuclear bomb became a fait accompli. - "When Will Saddam Get the Bomb? Not nearly so soon as the Bush Administration claims, "By William R. Doerner, December 10, 1990 via TIME Capsule, The Evolution of the Iraqi Threat, http://www.time.com/time/classroom/article/0,12422,235482,00.html

Even after the Gulf War , Iraq doggedly continued to obtain items, often through front companies, for its nuclear program, from private and government run entities throughout the developed world....

And one of the reasons the French really hate Bush & Cheney:

NOVEMBER 1, 2001 : (CHENEY'S THANK YOU NOTE ON OPERATION OPERA & DESTRUCTION OF FRENCH REACTOR IN IRAQ STILL HANGS ON IVRY'S WALL)When Israel's Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, accompanied by Ambassador David Ivry, recently visited the Oval Office, President Bush (the younger) remarked that Israel certainly has the right ambassador for the moment. He said this because David Ivry has shown that he understands how preventive action is pertinent to the problem of weapons of mass destruction in dangerous hands. Bush's remark, pregnant with implications, revealed that the president as well as the vice president remembers and admires a bold Israeli action for which Israel was roundly condemned 20 years ago. ... Today on [Israeli Ambassador David]Ivry's embassy office wall there is a large black-and-white photograph taken by satellite 10 years after the raid, at the time of the Gulf War. It shows the wreckage of the huge reactor complex, which is still surrounded by a high, thick wall that was supposed to protect it. Trees are growing where the reactor dome had been. The picture has this handwritten inscription. ``For Gen. David Ivry, with thanks and appreciation for the outstanding job he did on the Iraqi nuclear program in 1981--which made our job much easier in Desert Storm." The author of the inscription signed it: ``Dick Cheney, Sec. of Defense 1989-93." Were it not for Israel's raid, Iraq probably would have had nuclear weapons in 1991 and there would have been no Desert Storm. - "Israel prevented atomic disaster in 1981," by George Will, ©2001 Washington Post Writers Group townhall.com, November 1, 2001 http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/printgw20011101.shtml

107 posted on 07/13/2003 8:34:59 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Miss Marple
bump!
119 posted on 07/13/2003 8:57:03 PM PDT by Calpernia (Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: Miss Marple
I still think that there is something really bad yet to be discovered, and the French are in it up to their eyeballs.

I think Jaques Chirac's self interest is in it up to its eyeballs, and that's enough.

As we learned during the run-up to the war, Chirac had a close, personal relationship with the Saddam regime, and Saddam himself. There were all those unsecured personal loans, for instance, and a great deal of nuclear cooperation, and Chirac played a key role. So he needs to control that little problem.

Couple that with Chirac's obvious ambition to make the EU a legitimate world power, with Jaques Chirac as the head of Europe. He has to obstruct Bush/Blair, else he loses face.

Finally, I think there's also something else going on here. Chirac can count, and he knows that there are a lot of "unrepresented" Muslims out there. The Russians are killing 'em in Chechnya. We're supporting Israel and killing 'em in Iraq.

So Chirac, no doubt hoping to bank on France's colonial ties to the Arabs, probably figures he can swing the salamikazes over to his side. (This would also help mollify the huge Islamic minority in France proper.)

155 posted on 07/14/2003 6:57:35 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Miss Marple
Dear Miss M,MPI would rather we just dump on the French! They deserve it.....but you may be right...the logic doesn't add up here and I cannot figure it out.
165 posted on 07/14/2003 7:21:53 AM PDT by irish guard
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