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U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident
Haaretz ^ | 9/7/2003 | Nathan Guttman

Posted on 07/08/2003 4:33:17 PM PDT by Courier

U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident

By Nathan Guttman, Haaretz Correspondent

WASHINGTON - New documents released this week by America's National Security Agency support Israel's version of a long-festering controversy between the two countries: Israel's sinking of an American spy ship, the USS Liberty, off the coast of Gaza during the 1967 Six-Day War.

Israel has always said it had no idea the ship was American, but conspiracy theorists and anti-Israel propagandists still claim Israel sank the ship in the full knowledge that it was American.

The documents, originally defined as top secret, were made public by Florida Judge Jay Cristol, who

has been investigating the Liberty incident for years and published a book on the subject last year. On Monday, the NSA gave him a transcript of conversations held by two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots who were hovering over the Liberty as it was sinking, and these tapes confirm Israel's claim that the sinking of the ship, which killed 34 American servicemen and wounded 171, was a tragic error.

After the Liberty was bombed by both the Israel Air Force and the Israel Navy, the two helicopter pilots were summoned from their base to assess the damage and evaluate the possibility of rescuing the surviving crew members. An American spy plane, which had been sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack, recorded their conversations, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 P.M. on June 8, the third day of the war.

The spy plane also recorded the orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at Hatzor Base, which instructed them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed - thus supporting Israel's claim that it had believed the ship was Egyptian when it ordered it attacked. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were told.

Nine minutes later, Hatzor informed the pilots that it was not an Egyptian warship, but an Egyptian cargo ship. Only at 3:07 were the pilots first informed that the ship might not have been Egyptian at all: Hatzor told them that if they found Arabic-speaking survivors, they should be taken to El-Arish, but if they found English-speaking survivors, they should be taken to Lod. "Clarify by the first man that you bring up, what nationality he is, and report to me immediately," the supervisor instructed, according to the transcript. "It's important to know."

Then, at 3:12, one of the pilots informed Hatzor that he saw an American flag flying over the wounded ship. He was asked to investigate and determine whether it was really an American ship.

This is not the first time such transcripts have been made public: Israel gave its own recordings of the pilots' conversations to the British television station Thames in 1987. But conspiracy theorists charged that Israel had doctored the tapes before handing them over to the station in order to hide the fact that it sank the Liberty intentionally. No such imputation can be made about these new transcripts, as they were never in Israeli hands.

Israel has always said it attacked the Liberty, which America sent to the region to gather intelligence on the progress of the war, because it believed it was an Egyptian supply ship ferrying supplies to the Egyptian troops that Israel was then fighting. When it discovered the error, it immediately informed the Americans, apologized and paid compensation to the victims' families.

The incident was investigated by inquiry commissions in both Israel and the United States, and both concluded that it had, indeed, been a tragic error. Nevertheless, the controversy never died. In 1979, one of the survivors, James Ennes, published a book accusing Israel of bombing the American ship deliberately. Ennes claimed an Israeli spy plane had hovered over the ship all morning and had surely identified it as American, since the American flag was clearly visible.

A later book, written by James Bamford, charged that Israel sank the ship in order to keep America from learning of its plans to attack Syria, and further claimed that the NSA had tapes of conversations among Israeli pilots that not only confirmed this, but also proved that the tapes released by Israel had been doctored.

Another claim that appears frequently on the dozens of Internet sites devoted to the affair is that Israel sank the ship to conceal a mass murder of Egyptian soldiers on the Sinai peninsula.

In its letter to Cristol, the NSA stressed that, contrary to the claims that often appear in such books and Web sites - that the agency has tapes from both the Liberty and from a nearby American submarine that confirm Israel's guilt - the only tapes that exist were those made by the spy plane and given to Cristol this week.

"It's the last piece of intelligence that remained classified, and every rational person that will read it will understand that there is no truth in these conspiracy theories against Israel," Cristol said Tuesday. But he added: "Those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy will not be convinced by anything."

Cristol, a former U.S. navy pilot and legal officer, began investigating the Liberty incident 14 years ago. Since publishing his book, which vindicates Israel, he has received threats and been accused of being an Israeli agent. "I take this lightly, but I am saddened to learn that there is this kind of hate toward Israel," he said.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: accident; bloodlibel; israel; nsa; sixdaywar; ussliberty
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To: Courier
You guys are so vested in your beliefs that if Jesus returned to tell you it was a mistake, you wouldn't believe the lying Jew.

Probabably not. Sorry, buddy, no speaka da Aramaic....

341 posted on 07/09/2003 5:40:40 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
I'd expect that the 40KT yield W7 *Thor* wouldn't be used as an ASW weapon in close around a carrier group, with the lower yield 1KT depth charge and such a more likely payload for the Shyraiders, with the biger ordnance to be more likely delivered by the Phantoms, Skyhawks or Crusaders, likewise the 500 KT-1MT W43 package, though I'm no redshirt.

The low yield on the W43 was 70KT, not 500KT.

Also, kindly note that the A-1 Skyraider was not an ASW bird, it was a strike aircraft.

342 posted on 07/09/2003 5:45:04 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: E Rocc; rmlew
Correct. Even rmlew screwed up when he claims I have an agenda to attack Israel. I also figured the "I don't read anti-Semetism into it, although I cannot discount it." was going to be said. And, to think he almost had me seeing his points until that slur.
343 posted on 07/09/2003 6:18:45 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: Darksheare
I've often thought of that possibility. I don't really know what the mission of the Liberty was. The "real" mission?? The incident is certainly shrouded in mystery and conflict.
344 posted on 07/09/2003 6:21:38 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: DPB101
People who continue to defame Israel without any basis should have their motives questioned. I have no doubt that those on board are honestly bitter about their experience and I don't question their motives. But when the pilots were speaking of hitting an Egyptian ship after the fact what is left to doubt? They just knew that 36 years later their conversation would be released and they had to have their lines rehearsed?
345 posted on 07/09/2003 6:53:39 PM PDT by Honestfreedom
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To: Thumper1960
I don't know what is in your heart. How can I conclude that you are or are not an anti-Semite?
Nothing you have said is conclusive. I give people the benefit of the doubt.
346 posted on 07/09/2003 7:16:37 PM PDT by rmlew ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.")
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To: adam_az
The jets were armed with NUCLEAR MISSILES,

The type of planes the Saratoga or America had onboard carried no 'NUCLEAR MISSILES'.

In fact, I'll bet there isn't a fighter or attack plane in this day and age that carries your nonexistent 'NUCLEAR MISSILE'.

347 posted on 07/09/2003 7:35:28 PM PDT by X-FID ( The police aren't in the streets to create disorder; they are in the streets to preserve disorder.)
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To: Honestfreedom
I don't care what people's "motives" are or what you think they think. I only care about what people do. I tune out when I hear the words: "homophobia, racism, antisemitism, sexism". They have been done to death and are meaningless. My only point was both sides should lay out the facts and give it a rest. Claiming everyone who doesn't believe the Israeli version of events hates Jews and hates Israel is not only silly, it creates animosity. But...who knows..that could be the point of all this.
348 posted on 07/09/2003 7:35:32 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: X-FID
Bomb, my mistake.

I'm sure you knew what I meant, wise guy.

349 posted on 07/09/2003 7:44:26 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: adam_az
I did but I had to say it.
350 posted on 07/09/2003 7:51:32 PM PDT by X-FID ( The police aren't in the streets to create disorder; they are in the streets to preserve disorder.)
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To: Courier
Here's the JP write-up . . . . The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition

Judge Cristol tells the Post how he set record straight on USS Liberty



Much propaganda is thrown against Israel in the "information war" but no subject is highlighted more than a tragic friendly-fire incident which occurred between Israel and the US almost 40 years ago.

US Florida Judge Jay Cristol was responsible for having successfully petitioned the NSA to release US data confirming the accident. Cristol believes that Israel's enemies have tried to use this incident for decades to create a wedge between Washington and Jerusalem.

Judge Cristol, in an exclusive interview with The Jerusalem Post explains what happened to the USS Liberty and discusses the relevance of the new information released by the US National Security Agency.

Judge Cristol: "On the fourth day of the Six Day War, June 8, 1967, the USS Liberty, a U.S. Navy intelligence gatherer, failed to receive orders to stay clear of the combat zone and sailed into the middle of the Six Day War."

Cristol continues: "On the previous day, Israeli forces in the Sinai, near El Arish, had reported being shelled from the sea by a ship. Explosions around El Arish led the army to think it was happening again. They saw a grey warship near the horizon and reported it to headquarters (the Karya). The Israeli Navy sent motor torpedo boats to investigate. Through a series of additional errors, they determined that they could not overtake the ship which was steering toward Port Said. They called for air and the Israeli Air Force was sent to locate and attack a hostile warship off El Arish."

"Twelve or fourteen minutes into the air attack the flight leader of Royal Flight (2 Super Mystere) noticed the ship's hull markings were not in Arabic script. The Air Force stopped the attack. Soon thereafter the motor torpedo boats arrived. They stopped and began to signal the ship which was now smoking as a result of the air attack. The ship, the Liberty, began firing at the torpedo boats which convinced them she was hostile and commenced a torpedo attack. The ship was identified as hostile, Egyptian, Soviet, Egyptian again and ultimately American. The identification as American took place between 3:07 and 3:12 p.m. about 40 minutes after the attacks were over. The second Israeli helicopter pilot observed and confirmed an American flag," said Cristol.

"For years conspiracy theorists have claimed that audio tapes existed of the Israeli pilots identifying the ship as American before they attacked. There are other conspiracy claims that the Liberty radio compartment made such interceptions and that the U.S. submarine Amberjack had gathered damning evidence during the attack by means of its periscope."

"On July 2, 2003, as a result of my lawsuit using the Freedom of Information Act, the National Security Agency made two significant admissions. First, that there had been no radio intercepts made by the USS Liberty. Second, that there had been no radio intercepts made by the US submarine Amberjack. And finally, the National Security Agency released copies of the recordings it made from an EC-121 aircraft in the vicinity of the attacks during the time periods 2:30 p.m. Sinai time to 3:27 p.m. Sinai time. These tapes contain nothing to support the prior conspiracy claims and show that the helicopters were first dispatched to rescue Egyptians, and then demonstrate the confusion as to the identification of the target ship."

Cristol adds: "The tapes confirm that the helicopter pilot observed the flag at 3:12 p.m. This perfectly dove-tails with the audio tapes which the Israel Air Force released to Judge Cristol of the radio transmissions before, during and after the attack. The English translations of those tapes are published in Appendix 2, of Judge Cristol's book "The Liberty Incident". The NSA tapes are the last significant piece of evidence which remained classified until now. They clearly corroborates the Israeli Air Force tapes and support the decisions of ten official U.S. investigations and 3 or more official Israeli investigations, all of which concluded that the tragic event was a case of mistaken identity."

"As Admiral "Bud" Edney, former NATO supreme allied commander, Atlantic; and commander in chief, U.S. Atlantic command, stated, "Only those with an ulterior motive can still cling to the conspiracy theories after Judge Jay Cristol's excellent coverage documents each detail that led to the tragic mistaken attack."

The Jerusalem Post: Judge, what motivated you to get involved in this research project?

AJC: When I was appointed a federal judge I began taking courses in international affairs at the Graduate School of International Affairs at the University of Miami. My initial interest was in terrorism. One day Dr. Haim Shaked suggested that with my background as a naval aviator, navy lawyer, lecturer for the Department of Defense on law of naval warfare, civilian lawyer and federal judge, I was qualified to research and write on the Liberty incident. At first I resisted, arguing "that was more than 20 years ago". But I was soon shown how active the conspiracy theorists and hate mongers were about keeping the story alive. I started a one year project as a masters degree which developed into 10 years and a Ph.D. My doctoral dissertation is on file in the Library of Congress. I then spent 3 more years writing my book "The Liberty Incident". I now have 16 years on the project and the largest collection in the world of research materials on this subject. The Hoover Institution at Stanford University has requested my research material for their archives. I have gifted it to them and am in the process of sending it to them.

The Jerusalem Post: Why has this matter remained alive for 36 years?

AJC: The victims of the tragedy are typical of victims of friendly fire. They find it difficult to believe that they were wounded or their buddies were killed by mistake. In this case the victims have been imposed upon, used and abused by groups with their own agendas. First, are those who are on the Arab side of the Arab/Israeli conflict and who try to use the tragedy to drive a wedge into the otherwise excellent relationship between the United States and Israel. Next are those persons who are anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. And finally there are the conspiracy buffs. For the reasons indicated these three groups have continued to probe the wounds of the victims for their own purposes and are not concerned with healing or closure.

The Jerusalem Post: How important is the release of the audio tapes by the National Security Agency?

AJC: The release of the NSA tapes is extremely important because it provides additional evidence that has been solely in the hands of the United States and therefore cannot be challenged as having been modified or altered by Israeli intelligence services. In addition, it corroborates the Israeli Air Force tapes as the material dove-tails with the information on those tapes.

The Jerusalem Post: Why do many of the conspiracy theorists continue to demand a United States Congressional investigation and is such an investigation appropriate?

AJC: The goal is simply to provide a platform for propaganda. There have been ten official U.S. investigations. Five of them were Congressional. They all reached the same conclusion that the incident was a tragic mistake. Eight United States Presidents: Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush (41), Clinton, and Bush (43) have supported and adopted these conclusions. In fact, the current President of the United States, George W. Bush, through White House staff, issued a letter in October 2002 indicating his position that no further investigation of this incident was needed.

The Jerusalem Post: Would you comment on the claims of author James Bamford that the Liberty was attacked to prevent the United States from learning of massacres of Egyptian prisoners in the Sinai?

AJC: Mr. Bamford provides as his source of this claim two Israeli journalists, both of whom have denied statements attributed to them by Bamford. First, it is literally impossible for an electronic intelligence gatherer to overhear murders taking place in a desert more than a dozen miles away. The Sinai was returned to Egypt in 1973. Egypt has made no claim that such murders took place. No mass graves have been located and no Egyptian soldiers from the '67 war are missing or unaccounted for. Mr. Bamford writings are much closer to fiction than to history.

The Jerusalem Post: Are all the former crew-members of the USS Liberty unanimous in their belief in conspiracy theories?

AJC: Absolutely not. The spectrum of opinions is quite varied from those who are rabid conspiracy theory supporters to others who accept the fact that the tragedy was the result of both Israeli and U.S. mistakes. I have been asked for the names of crew-members who accept the mistake theory but have declined to name anyone as I have no intention of creating animosity among shipmates.

The Jerusalem Post: The Liberty Veteran's Association appears to be very active in support of conspiracy theories. How is the association organized and are all former Liberty crew-members members of the Association?

AJC: There are many crew-members that have never joined the Association. The Association was founded with the assistance of two former United States Congressman, Paul Findley of Illinois, the first U.S. Congressman to espouse the PLO, and Paul N. "Pete" McCloskey, who is well known for his anti-Israel sentiments. McCloskey drafted the incorporation papers for the Association and also served as legal advisor to the Association. He has spoken at Holocaust denial organization conferences. He and Findley, together with three other former congresspersons, established the Council for the National Interest, CNI, an organization whose avowed purposes (according to their own press release) was to be an anti-Israel lobby.



351 posted on 07/09/2003 8:07:41 PM PDT by Phil V.
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To: Phil V.
but conspiracy theorists and anti-Israel propagandists still claim Israel sank the ship in the full knowledge that it was American.

Anyone who dares question Israel is a conspiracy theorist and an anti-Israel propagandist ? The captain and crew or the Liberty are conspiracy theorists and anti-Israel propagandists?

352 posted on 07/09/2003 8:23:12 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: archy; E Rocc; grapeape; adam_az; Poohbah
Actually, the aircraft were propeller-driven AD-1 Skyraiders, from another carrier, USS America,

No they weren't. The America's CVW-6 was not equipped with Skyraiders in 1967 (or any other time)

Nuclear armed Skyraiders: just another fictiod made up by a tinfoil hatted author

353 posted on 07/09/2003 9:17:51 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (hoist by his own petard. always funny.)
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To: Poohbah; archy
Also, kindly note that the A-1 Skyraider was not an ASW bird, it was a strike aircraft.

Actually the Skyraider was cleared to carry W-7 and W-34 depth charges. (When you've got 10KT to play with, great accuracy isn't that important) But that was in the '50s and early 60's, not 1967.

354 posted on 07/09/2003 9:30:05 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (hoist by his own petard. always funny.)
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To: Thumper1960
It seems that the more people look at it, the more mystery surrounds it as well.
355 posted on 07/10/2003 4:45:25 AM PDT by Darksheare (The Borg, the IRS of Star Trek.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
They could still execute laydown deliveries with W7s and W43s.
356 posted on 07/10/2003 4:50:34 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
Actually, the aircraft were propeller-driven AD-1 Skyraiders, from another carrier, USS America,

No they weren't. The America's CVW-6 was not equipped with Skyraiders in 1967 (or any other time)

The A-1 Skyraider


(one of my favorite planes along with its current incarnation the Warthog)

wouldn't have been sent into a potential air to air combat situation in any case. Not without fighter (F-4) cover.

357 posted on 07/10/2003 5:22:11 AM PDT by E Rocc (The USS William Clinton will be a hospital ship permanently based at Bangkok)
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To: Oztrich Boy
BTW, VA-176 on the Saratoga was flying Skyraiders at the time.
358 posted on 07/10/2003 5:37:35 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: adam_az
For the record, I quoted a source which introduced a small typographical error while quoting a primary source. That's hardly a big mistake
Yeah, but you originally posted it disputing my comment that they scrambled F-4s.

-Eric

359 posted on 07/10/2003 5:38:59 AM PDT by E Rocc (The USS William Clinton will be a hospital ship permanently based at Bangkok)
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