God...not G-d

[grumple]

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking. Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayton asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?" In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school ... the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. The school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (there's a big difference between disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.). And we said OK. Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said OK. Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said OK

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. Agreeing with them, we said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.

Then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the female body. And we said OK. And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then further again by making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to free speech.

Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in!

[freesia2]

Thanks for the info, Catspaw. Obviously, I'm not that familiar with Judiasm. I had never seen this practice anywhere but here.

[Catspaw]

I've seen it used in other writings, but only learned the history of the usage right here on FR. Other posters, some who taught me the history, have gone into much more depth about it. To me, it's no different that using the symbol of a fish for Christians.

[MEGoody]

"Of course, when God was back in the schools, plenty of terrible things happened then as well."

Yeah. Teachers reported the worst problems they had: Chewing gum and talking in class. How awful!

[Catspaw]

This line should be read at every imigration celebration of new citizenship and to our school children. Excellent post Catspaw! Thanks

Your link in post #114 contains it in the 1700's section, but it's also at the website for the Tuoro Synagogue in Newport RI.

[MEGoody]

"George Washington was a model for us of Christian persuasion as opposed to Christian Bible thumpage."

Why do you say that?

[freesia2]

Not knowing the background, I was bothered by seeing "G-d," but now I can accept it as it is intended, a show of respect (rather that disrespect, which is what I first thought).

[SJackson]

All these references have to do with the opinions of man, not the anouncements of God.

Clearly, they’re all based on Deut 12:3-4. I don’t have a lot of interest in arguing the validity of the position here, I was simply noting some references in response to your request, and implicaton ( It's a time-honored activity spanning millennia…responseDo you have some proof? that this is a recent practice, which it isn’t.

As the response noted, the hyphenated version is not used in Holy Books, which would be consistant with your experience The name of God seems to be fully spelled out in holy writings. Strong's Concordance shows no evidence for leaving out the "o"…, not evidence that this is somehow a recent invention.

[maryz]

I can't explain why you've only encountered it for the last few years. I can tell you I've seen it since childhood for the last nearly 30 years, but then, I'm Jewish.

I've been familiar with it since high school in the 60s (and I'm Catholic). Actually, I asked a Jewish guy I worked with in my after school job some questions about Judaism, and he gave me a couple of articles.

[SJackson]

If it really was a 3000 year old tradition *widespread* practice in English, then I would have encountered it sometime during my 50 years on this earth prior to the last couple of years.
What I thought we were referring to is the practice of writing "God" this way in modern English text. What was done 2000 years ago isn't relevant to the question of why it is I, as a reasonably well read person, did not encounter this practice until quite recently.

That probably has more to do with your reading habits than anything else. How frequently did you read Jewish literature (excluding Holy Texts where the hyphenation might not be used) or correspond on religious topics with Orthodox Jews? If often, I have no explanation for you. If not, then I’d suspect it has more to do with the more profuse distribution of writing since the advent of the internet.

[HairOfTheDog]

Do you have some proof? The name of God seems to be fully spelled out in holy writings.

You got the point, though you don't know it. Holy books are holy books, and they are treasured and not dscarded without respect. The tradition is to not put God's name on writings that are temporary and informal, not to be kept, that will be thrown away.

It is like the truists regarding the American flag, those who think it is improper to put the image of the flag on items of clothing or other treatment that will not treat that image with the respect a flag should have. Not all patriots follow that etiquette to the letter, feeling proud to wear the flag on a bandana or a shirt... But some do follow it, and their failure to not wear a flag shirt is not a failure to be a good patriot by any stretch. Same with the writing of the word G-d.

[grumple]

"Surely you don't mean that Orthodox Jews are "disrespectful" for "cowering being the modern culture while waiting for His return," because they spell "God" "G-d," do you? Or do you?"

No, not at all. But while ignoring modern culture issues such as prominent homosexuality, gay marriages, and the elimination of God from all things relevant seems a bit more to be concerned about rather than the focus on how you spell God as a sign of respect.

[HairOfTheDog]

Meant to ping you to my 130 also.

[grumple]

Not knowing the background, I was bothered by seeing "G-d," but now I can accept it as it is intended, a show of respect (rather that disrespect, which is what I first thought).

This is how I felt, for those who were offended my apologies. Know that I was just as offended by seeing it spelled G-d (or any other deviation), considering the obvious attempt at removing God from all things relevant.

[SJackson]

No, not at all. But while ignoring modern culture issues such as prominent homosexuality, gay marriages, and the elimination of God from all things relevant seems a bit more to be concerned about rather than the focus on how you spell God as a sign of respect.

So you come to the conclusion that Orthodox Jews somehow should be criticized for the offensive and culturally destructive practice (to you) hyphenating G-d, in contrast to the more enlightend liberal Reform Jews who will be much more lax on this point, who would be far more supportive of your position.

You're picking the wrong allies in your concern about modern culture issues.

[DannyTN]

"Do you not think that if fully spelling-out "God" really pissed Him off that He would've lightning-struck somebody for it by now? "

That's not how God typically operates. His purpose is to bring people to salvation, regardless of how they spell His name.

God doesn't lightning strike the vast majority of people who use his name in foul and derogatory ways. So why would you expect him to lightning strike someone who was trying to show him respect.

[E Rocc]

Begin your studies with the The American Colonist's Library

Nice set of links, thanks. Much of it I've seen already. I found the link to the Danbury letter interesting because it's to the Wallbuilders site, and it's no longer valid. Barton rearranged his site, much like he had to re-arrange his arguments when he learned that a number of the quotes he had been using were inaccurate.

There's no doubt that most of the Founders and Framers were Christians, and some that may not have been approved of Christianity. The question is whether or not they intended for Christianity to be an integral part of the government. There's quite a few links there that suggest the answer is no. Too many to claim, as some do, that Christianity isn't in the Constitution because it was presumed or implied.

-Eric

[grumple]

"So you come to the conclusion that Orthodox Jews somehow should be criticized for the offensive and culturally destructive practice (to you) hyphenating G-d (Heavy sigh)...Until you can identify where it was that I deemed Orthodox Jews worthy of criticism for anything I've posted or that I deemed any variation of the spelling of God as destructive, then I will consider your response completely misunderstanding.

[BlueAngel]

You are exactly right in your statements.

[PatrioticAmerican]

Ditto! Its like FR. We all use screen names, but I am not afraid to give my name out. Not at all. I am a proud American and I am willing to take a stand and tell everyone who I am that is taking the stand.

If someone is proud to know God, then why spell his name such that they "might" not offend him? How can God be offended by someone respectfully spelling his name that we human use for him? Frankly, if I were God, I'd be miffed that someone wouldn't spell it out.

R_b in Denver.