Weak demand causes glut of smallpox vaccine (socialist public health on strike)

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | July 5, 2003 | CHRISTOPHER SNOWBECK

[bonesmccoy]

Weak demand causes glut of smallpox vaccine Supplies are high for shots few seem to want. Unused doses may go to waste.

In the latest sign that the nation's smallpox vaccination program has fallen short of expectations, public health officials in several large states say they may end up throwing away more smallpox vaccine than they have used.

[bonesmccoy]

"In California, 6,400 doses were prepared, but only 1,847 people have been vaccinated so far."

The reason for the failure of the public health sector to do their job is obvious to any doctor.

Public health refuses to permit most doctors to get immunized. I have had personal discussion with the health officers in our area. They belittle the individuals who want the vaccine.

Since public health appears to be incapable of delivering vaccine to the people of America, I suggest that the POTUS and WH sideline the CDC and the existing public health system. It should be apparent that the socialists in the public health system are incapable of defending our nation.

The public health authorities refuse to include most doctors and nurses in the small pox vaccination program. Why?

There is no explanation other than the fact that the public health people are socialists who are disinclined to follow the directives of the President.

It is obvious that the first responders to a biological attack against our country are NOT the emergency personnel and ER doctors. Instead, it is the family doctors, internal medicine doctors, children's doctors, and nursing staff of those physicians who are the first responders.

Nevertheless, the public health authorities across this country have directives to NOT permit internal medicine physicians, pediatricians, and family doctors access to the vaccine.

Is it any small wonder why the public health authority still has vaccine?

They eliminated the doctors from the ability to get immunized!

[Tamzee]

Anyone remember all the liberal screaming about Bush's Homeland Security not stockpiling "enough smallpox vaccines for the public"?

[Bluntpoint]

It is the fault of NAFTA. We keep shipping all our small pox work overseas.

[bonesmccoy]

Yes.

Then, the WH pointed out that the vaccine supply was short in country because the Clinton Administration failed to do anything for eight years about the problem.

When the WH and CDC directed public health to move forwards with protection for our nation, the public health people corraled ALL small pox vaccine in the country.

According to multiple threads here on FR, county public health people are preventing use of the vaccine by redefining who a "first-responder" is.

Instead of doctors and nurses being capable of getting immunized if they want, the public health bureaucrats have PREVENTED the doctors from doing their job by declaring that all nurses and doctors are not "first responders".

This was particularly laughable given the SARS problem and China and Canada, which clearly shows that the nurses and doctors DIE FIRST, not second.

[bonesmccoy]

NAFTA has nothing to do with this issue.

[joesnuffy]

I remember Greg Underheim Rep (Wi.) calling anyone who wasnt in favor of... or who questioned his opinon (authority) of forced innoculations of all state residents- immediately ...a member of "The Black Helicopter Crowd"...Mr. Underheim was demanding jail terms for all who refused regardless of their reasons as I recall......

imo Tommy was in the background on this pulling strings...along with some large gennerous drug companies

Since this vaccine is NOT the same one we got as kids....imo its contra indications needed more looking into..

As we still havent been attacked by terrorists with small pox, anthrax, flu, or otherwise...

Perhaps forced innoculations against one strain of smallpox wasnt really warranted?

-when tinfoil heads make counter accusations of tin foil mediated thinking...its increasingly difficult to determine who the real tinfoil head is...imo

[Bluntpoint]

I thought we were exporting all the good diseases abroad?

[Jim Noble]

It is unquestionable that the PHS response to the Presidential directive was sluggish, and when it could not be avoided, obstructionistic.

It is also unquestionable that this was an anti-Bush phenomenon.

[y2k_free_radical]

It is difficult to exaggerate the frustrations caused in dealing with the beauraticrized inept PHS--anything difficult and they quickly make it the burden of the acute care facilities,usually the local acute care hospitals and laboratories

[Digger]

Me thinks the whole issue was pushed so the manufacturers ie supporters got their take. But no investigation so lets just move on. (This is only an assumption, no facts, no time to review but why wouldn't there be a fix here. Is not the government as corrupt as ever?)

[bert]

For the record, NAFTA is North American Free Trade Agreement and thus has no bearing on anything "overseas". Your post would have had some meaning if it referred to either Mexico or Canada.

[Bluntpoint]

Really? I swear I read in the communicable disease section of TV guide that American Diseased people just don't measure up to those found in third-world countries.

[Dave S]

The public health authorities refuse to include most doctors and nurses in the small pox vaccination program. Why? There is no explanation other than the fact that the public health people are socialists who are disinclined to follow the directives of the President.

If you are in fact a doctor you know there are legitimate reasons why doctors and other health care personnel are not lining up for the vacinationa other than public health officials being socialists. I hope you use a more logic based approach to diagnosing your patients.

First of all there is a danger of illness and/or death to those that take the vacine especially those who have skin ailments or undetected heart disease. Many of the hospitals recommend that their personnel not get vacinated or outright refuse to let them.(they dont want to be liable if one of their employees becomes ill or dies).

Secondly, it is well known that those who are vacinated will shed virus for a period of maybe ten days after they are vacinated. If they come into contact with patients (which is what most doctors do) and these patients are immuno supressed then these patients can be infected with small pox. Few doctors want to give up a couple weeks income for the unlikely event that they will ever see small pox in their practice. Additionally, since it is unclear who is to be held liable for anyone that becomes sick because a vacinated doctor spreads the disease to his patients, why should they be vacinnated to satisfy you? Especially if their hospital will not allow them to be vacinated because the hospital doesnt want to be sued by the family of some transplant patient who becomes infected and dies.

It is obvious that the first responders to a biological attack against our country are NOT the emergency personnel and ER doctors. Instead, it is the family doctors, internal medicine doctors, children's doctors, and nursing staff of those physicians who are the first responders.

Just like the first responders to SARS in Canada were all family doctors huh? You might get an occasional person who goes to their family physician for small pox but once the first case makes the news, its going to be the ER that's swamped with everyone thats got anything from a pimple up to full blown small pox. They are also the ones that are going to be seeing the sickest non small pox patients and you dont want them passing the disease on to those individuals already having some sort of acute challenge. Family doctors and childrens doctors are more likely to see more chronically ill people.

[friendly]

My internist says the risk of lawsuits is too great to encourage some vaccines in general and smallpox in particular.

Lawyers and their crookeed legal system are ultimately far more dangerous to national security than al-Queda.

[Nick5]

bravo to clear, logical, fact-based thinking

[bonesmccoy]

Sir,

Are you in the medical field?

DryVax was used for 25 years without litigation or "liability issues". Why is liability an issue now?

You have not dealt with any of the facts in the original statement. Public Health officials are not carrying out the president's directives. PERIOD

[bonesmccoy]

Have you been able to figure out why the WH staff has not been more proactive in organizing the community clinics and private practitioners?

I signed up for the "medical reserve" but never heard anything from Washington... what is your take on the situation?

[Dave S]

You have not dealt with any of the facts in the original statement. Public Health officials are not carrying out the president's directives.

You made the moronic statement that the Public Health officials were not carrying out the presidents directives because of liberal bias. Prove it. Saying that they wouldnt let you get your shot is not proof of anything but perhaps you are a little paranoid.

[bonesmccoy]

Dave S says, "You made the moronic statement that the Public Health officials were not carrying out the presidents directives because of liberal bias."

BonesMcCoy: It's not moronic when the CDC states under clear terms that each community of 1 million citizens REQUIRES 1500 medical personnel to carry out emergency intervention in the event of a biological attack.

Before you challenge me, please answer the question I posed... what are your medical credentials?


Dave S. says: Prove it. Saying that they wouldnt let you get your shot is not proof of anything but perhaps you are a little paranoid.

BonesMcCoy: How much more proof do you need other than the original posting? In one county of tens of millions of people (Los Angeles County), have they immunized 10,000 health care workers and enlisted their service in the medical emergency planning?

Nope.

The proof is evident.

What else do you need?

[bonesmccoy]

I don't know Greg Underhiem... feel free to post more.

Regarding Wyeth's DryVax, it is the EXACT same vaccine given to us as children. In fact, the vaccine was in cold storage for the last twenty years because Clinton failed to restart vaccine production in the US during his Presidency.

Regarding the lack of use of biological agents by terrorists, frankly we would not be capable of diagnosing the issue in a timely fashion. The reason is that the HMOs prohibit doctors from diagnosing the etiologies of most diseases.

In this region, most primary care doctor's offices are specifically precluded from rendering such tests because the HMO middle man prohibits us from diagnosing the disease.

(yes, that is correct... PROHIBITS us from using the lab tests in our offices)

This is not tinfoil sir.

When you're a board certified doctor and doing hands on delivery of care in a major urban area and the county has failed to let you do your job, that is the ultimate Orwellian fact.

Before our practice risks any more lives on diagnosing patients, it is high time for gov't to either help us or get out of the way. This obstructionism is deleterious to the general welfare and pursuit of happiness.

Therefore, the politicians who have created this mockery of a system MUST GO.

Recall Gray Davis!