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To: MissAmericanPie
"You cannot sit there an deny that Bush has kidnapped the Republican party on a wild socialist ride left."

"Wild Socialists" or "liberal Democrats" wouldn't have killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty, but Bush did.

Liberal Democrats wouldn't have pulled the U.S. out of the International Criminal Court, but Bush did.

Liberal Democrats wouldn't have killed the U.S.-CCCP ABM Treaty, but Bush did.

Liberal Democrats wouldn't have gotten the 1st largest and 3rd largest tax cuts in world history passed into law, but Bush did.

Liberal Democrats wouldn't arm pilots or order Aschroft to inform the U.S. Supreme Court that the official U.S. government position is that the 2nd Amendment supports individual rights to bear arms, not group or state rights (soemething that was too Conservative and controversial for even Ronald Reagan to do).

Liberal Democrats wouldn't sign the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, either, but Bush will sign it this very year.

So comparing Bush to "liberal Democrats" or "wild socialists" misses the mark. Your complaint, which is a valid one, is actually that Bush is letting Congress spend too much. Well, that's all fine and well, but someone should simply *say* that, rather than confuse the spending issue with being a "wild socialist".

Once the conversation is accurately focused on Bush letting Congress spend too much, then a real debate can proceed.

What is Bush getting for this spending? Two conservative Supreme Court Justices, one would think (perhaps even three), as the Justices won't survive another 6 years of Bush being in office (and Bush will easily win re-election in 2004 due to his current strategy). Bush also gained the right to fire bad teachers in Ted Kennedy's education reform package, and Bush is getting tort reform passed that immunizes gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits, among others). Bush has carte blanc to re-vamp our military, too.

It's a good bet that Bush will get Social Security privatized in the next 6 years, as well as get school vouchers passed so that the power of the public school teachers' unions will be broken by private schools. Bush is also getting our ABM system installed in Alaska.

These are **historic** achievements, and the history books will marvel at how one politician was able to accomplish so much with the government and nation so evenly divided.

Consider that after 8 full years of Clinton, old Bill still can't point to any positive legislative achievement (of his own). What a contrast between those two Presidents!

But there is a price to be paid. Bush is buying Congressional votes with our tax Dollars.

Lots of Conservatives may have very valid reservations about this price, and that's a fair topic to debate.

But you are calling Bush a wild socialist, while that's clearly not true as no "wild socialist" would sign the Partial Birth Abortion Ban. What you actually mean is that Bush is spending too much of our money.

Well, how much would 30 years of a future *conservative* Supreme Court worth?! The Socialists in the Senate aren't filibustering Bush's judicial picks because they're too far to the Left, I assure you!

How much is protecting our nation from nuclear ICBM's worth?!

How much is it worth to re-vamp our military and kill the Kyoto Treaty?

Let's debate those real issues. What are we willing to pay to achieve these things in a divided nation with a divided Congress?

60 posted on 06/30/2003 7:54:12 PM PDT by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
Nothing you listed can romance the sovereignty of the USofA from underneath me. Here are a few quotes from Bush, whose first action after taking his hand off George Washington's bible and swearing to uphold the Constitution of the USofA. He flew to Mexico, embraced V. Fox and laid plans to dissolve our sovereign borders.

"I want to see a "Free Trade Zone" from the north of Canada, to the tip of Cape Horn".

"If you only make 5 bucks an hour in Mexico and you can make 50 bucks an hour in Detroit, your going to come aren't you" (wink)

Explain to me what difference it makes, in a nation whose constitution is overrun by the votes of millions of marxist invaders, whether a liberal Republican party, or a liberal Democrat party is in charge of the destruction? What difference will Koyoto or any of it make then?

I'm a little more far sighted than to watch a magicians right hand while his left picks my pocket. This is the prize being fought for here, sovereignty. And I won't take my attention off of it debating spending and national debt.

I would advise everyone to look at how this "Free Trade Zone" is proposed to be set up. A committee of appointed, not elected over seers who settle disputes and decide which side wins. The disputs have already begun between Canada and the USofA over additives to gasoline, between the USofA and Mexcio over mexican trucking. I don't think it a smart move to place the outcome of such disputes in the hands of some entity with power over our constitution and sovereign best interests. Bush on the other hand has make it clear he loves the idea.
94 posted on 06/30/2003 8:19:17 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Southack
Being against partial birth abortion has nothing to do with being a socialist. The Christian Socialist Party in Italy is against all abortion. France is a socialist country and partial birth abortion is illegal there.

A socialist is someone who promotes or believes in socialism. Socialism is a system where the state controls the capital and property. Hitler is the author of modern socialism. His national socialism differed from communism in that the state just controlled property, and capital rather than owning it. Both systems redistributed wealth from the productive to the society as a whole.

Bush didn’t arm pilots. Congress did over the objections of his appointees, Minetta and Ridge.

As for judges, Bush nominated Owen and Estrada but he also re-nominated all the Clinton judges who were unconfirmed when Clinton left office. He has yet to nominate a SC judge so we don’t know what he will do there.

Bush’s tax cuts were mostly offset by his two huge tax increases.

There is no chance in the world that Bush will privatize Social Security in the next 6 years. NONE.

The Bush/Kennedy school bill sets the stage for the feds to run the local schools. The testing provision is the foot in the door. Because tests are meaningless unless they are standardized, Bush and Kennedy will come back and create a standard test for all schools.

Once they do that, whoever writes the test will control what is taught in every local school in America. Vouchers will also allow the feds into free market schools. In order to get the money, the free market schools will have to teach the same thing the government schools teach and the kids will have to take the test Washington creates.

Bush did well on the Kyoto Treaty, International Criminal Court, the ABM Treaty, and he is talking a good game on Star Wars. Bush would make a good Secretary of State. His domestic policies are socialistic, big government, liberalism. They are certainly not conservative by any stretch of the term.

134 posted on 06/30/2003 8:41:35 PM PDT by SUSSA
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