Pharaoh's chariots found in the Red Sea? ( Holy Moses! )

World Net Daily ^ | June 21, 2003 | Joe Kovacs

[DAnconia55]

reality of Evolution?

See : Gregor Mendel.

[blam]

"Ah. Just where the theory of Atlantis (Thera) destruction posits the Red Sea crossing would have been."

I think Thera (1628BC) is to recent to be Atlantis. My sense is that it was near the end of the Ice Age and more likely to be in the 7,000-15,000 years ago range. We have only one mention of Atlantis from Plato via Timeous from Solon. The more ancient an incident the less information/evidence.

[Radix]

As I remember the book of Genesis, there was no mention of a childhood for Adam. I believe that he was according to the book, created as an adult.

Would you, could you rationally argue that an omnipotent being would not be capable of creating a World fully formed and mature?

Some people sure do seem to be willing to limit omnipotence!

[dark_lord]

Around 5600BC, or 7600 years ago. What happened was that as the Ice Age waned, a land barrier between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea was finally breached. At that time the Black Sea was a freshwater lake. According the calculations of Pitman and Ryan, "10 cubic miles of water poured through [the Bosporus] each day, two hundred times what flows over the Niagra falls, enough to cover Manhattan Island each day to a depth of over half a mile." They estimated that the roar of the rushing water would have been audible at 300 miles distance, the speed of the inflow would have been some 50 miles per hour, the rise of the Black Sea would have been 6 inches per day, and all around the world the oceans would have been lowered by a foot in order to supply this huge new addition to their capacity.

And no surprise -- the mountains of Ararat are way up there not that far from the Southeastern shores of the Black Sea -- and quite a trek from the rest of the action that happened in the Bible. Almost all the action in the Old Testament happens in what is today Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria, or Iraq. Except for -- TA DA -- Noah's Ark and the flood which is way up north of the rest of the action. Interesting, yes?

[Radix]

Leave us Geminis out of this.

[PJ-Comix]

I'll only believe this if they can find a rusted can of Yul Brynner's Chrome Dome polish.

[Radix]

Are you talking about peas?

That is your evidence?

[Mr Rogers]

People in ancient times used numbers differently than we do. If they claimed their King was 30,000 years old, it didn't mean he was 30,000 - it meant they considered him a very great person. Army sizes tended to see the same exageration - but it wasn't a lie. It was meant to communicate greatness or how impressed the hearer should be, not scientific data.

[blam]

"The Gulf is shallow and at the Mediterranean end of the Red Sea."

Think about this. During the Ice Age the Persian Gulf was completely dry and the Red Sea was land locked and at some point the 'dam' holding the Arabian sea out had to have broken. The earthquakes and tsunamis created by the eruption of Thera could have broken the 'dam' and reflooded the Red Sea?

[blam]

"According the calculations of Pitman and Ryan."

Okay thanks. I have the book Noah's Flood by Ryan and Pittman.

I thought you may have had another date.

[Buggman]

Except the entire story of Noah requires one to believe that a powerful God, capable of destroying worlds and creating them, would need to ask a human to build a boat to carry animals from all over the world, including those cut off in Australia, and brave flood waters and storms rather than simply wipe out the existence of all men but those he had chosen.

Ah, so your major issue with the Flood is that you think you know the mind of God?

Look, the God of the Bible has always given humans work to do for various purposes. In Noah's case, there were several distinct reasons for God to tell him to build the Ark instead of simply teleporting him and the other survivors forward in time:

1) To actually go through with such an absurd thing as building a titanic ship (pun intended) would require a leap of faith on Noah's part, and God is constantly seeking to give us the opportunity to test and prove our faith--for our benefit, not His.

2) The building of the ark stood as a warning of God's impending judgment for the 120 years of its construction. There was no one who died in the Flood who could say that they hadn't heard of the ark and the warning, or that they failed to repent out of ignorance.

3) The ark serves as a prophetic model of Jesus Christ. The name implies a sarcophagus. There was only one door to temporal salvation just as there is only one door to spiritual salvation, and only God can choose when to close it. Those in Christ will be protected from the end-time wrath of God, just as Noah and the seven others were protected from the Flood. And it is no accident that Christ was raised from the dead on the anniversery of the ark's landing on Mt. Ararat.

4) Since God told Noah to cover the ark with pitch on both the inside and the out, I believe that sometime in the near future, before the Second Coming, the ark will be irrefutably found and unveiled to the whole world to serve once again as a warning of God's judgment. (Just MHO, of course.)

God does things in strange ways. Instead of reflexively objecting that there is an "easier" way for Him to do something, why don't you try looking for the reasons that He did what the Bible says He did?

[Radix]

People in ancient times used numbers differently than we do

 

Says who?

 

You might want to consider taking a very close look at the Bible some day. The sixth day according to Genesis is THIS day. In other words, we are living in the sixth day. I tire sometimes of silly people attributing western ideas and concepts to the terminiology of the Bible.

 

 

I do not believe that there is a claim in the Bible of any person living more than 1000 years.

 

Genesis 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 5 In context: Genesis 5:1-2)

 

 

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 2 In context: Genesis 2:16-18)

 

 

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(Whole Chapter: 2 Peter 3 In context: 2 Peter 3:7-9)

[rwfromkansas]

There was a very interesting show on NBC a couple years ago about this stuff.

[rwfromkansas]

If there were only a few things found and only a few divers, you would be right. But that just isn't the case. Whether it is the Exodus or something else, something happened.

[blam]

"Almost all the action in the Old Testament happens in what is today Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria, or Iraq. Except for -- TA DA -- Noah's Ark and the flood which is way up north of the rest of the action. Interesting, yes?"

Yup, real interesting especially, if you consider the refugees from this flood. Ryan & Pittman speculate that these refugees spread farming and the Indo-European language across all of Europe and beyond...I've even tried to connect the 4,000 year old Caucasian mummies found in China to these refugees, who spoke the extinct Indo-European language, Tocharian A & B. (Victor Myer, The Tarim Mummies)

[mware]

"So let it be written, so let it be done."

[rwfromkansas]

Don't let this turn into an evolution thread. Just ignore them.

[blam]

Also, I have an NOAA map that shows the worlds oceans with the water depth reduced by about 300 ft. and that segments the Mediterranean Ocean into three parts. I suspect we had a similar cascade flooding (When Gibraltar opened up) across the Mediterranean before it got to the Black Sea and caused "Noah's Flood' in the same way. That could be another reason for all the flood stories, everything was flooding.

[rwfromkansas]

lol

All it shows is that God chose to do things that way, not that he "needed" to do so.

Bush uses a particular type of plane for AF1. That doesn't mean he NEEDS to use that type of plane; he could use a bigger one, a Concord, a small jet etc.

For such a "scientist," you don't have the ability to think of multiple possibilities.

[Buggman]

Would you, could you rationally argue that an omnipotent being would not be capable of creating a World fully formed and mature?

To be fair, Radix, I don't think the main objection is that God couldn't design an old-seeming universe, but that he wouldn't, at least not one that would show some sign of its true age. To create a universe with an illusion of age and no way to pierce the illusion seems a lot like an act of deceit, does it not? For example, we sometimes see the light of a star going nova or supernova more than 10,000 light-years away; if the universe was simply created with an appearance of age, then that star never existed, let alone exploded!

This winds up being the cosmological equivalent of claiming that dinosaur bones were planted by the Devil to deceive us or by God to test us, but that such creatures never walked. One could just as easily claim that the entire universe was created five minutes ago with an appearance of age to the same effect.

That's why most Young Earth Creationists today spend time studying theories to show how the universe came to appear to be old despite being young. Speed-of-light decay (or CDK) is among the most popular of these (and I believe that a couple of Austrailian scientists proved at least some CDK in the universe a year or so ago, unless their experiments have since been falsified), but I personally rather prefer Russel Humphrey's alternative theory of the universe's evolution expressed in Starlight and Time.

To sum up: Saying God simply made the universe appear old, made it look like stars were being formed and were dying millions of light-years away (and millions of years ago) without positing a reasonable mechanic that caused the apparent age that we can test is saying that God purposefully deceived us. We only do ourselves damage by arguing this.

Personally, I take the I.D. approach and grant the evolutionist five hundred million years for life to form and evolve to its current diversity (though theologicially, I prefer a younger earth for simplicity's sake, I don't require it for Biblical inerrancy's sake). It still doesn't work, which is why so many scientists are either starting to make room for I.D. in their dogma or are positing ideas along the lines of panspermia, the theory that live evolved elsewhere before coming here (which is ludicrous and hardly to be preferred over the theory that God did it on purely scientific grounds, but there you have it).