'H' visas amount to guest-worker status

elpasotimes.com ^ | Saturday, June 21, 2003 | Patrick Osio Jr.

[FryingPan101]

During the phenomenal economic growth of the 1990s, unemployment figures were at historical lows in spite of the huge arrivals of both legal and illegal immigrants.

Thus, we can conclude that arrivals were being absorbed into the workforce, and adding to the nation's economic growth.

A further conclusion is that as long as the economy is robust, there is a need for additional workers outside of those available in the country. And it is, as now, when the economy is down that such outside workers become a surplus and thus unwanted.

In recognition of the above, what is needed is an ability to "import" workers when needed, but without providing permanent immigration status. The good news is that such non-immigrant visas have been available for years to certain industries requiring temporary or non-permanent jobs.

Such visas do not grant immigration status, so another description is temporary guest-worker visa programs. The visas are provided when companies in certain industries can prove workers for particular jobs are not available locally; and the employment of the alien, in "such labor or services will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed," as the law reads.

The guest-worker temporary employment visas available are the H-1B for specialty occupations such as computer programming (mainly from India); H-1C for nurses in health service (mainly from the Philippines); H-2A agricultural field; H-2B other services such as athletes, trainers or artists; H-3 for trainees; and H-4 visas for wives and children of workers temporarily entering with any of the "H" visas.

Entrants under the provisions granted by the "H" visas are temporary workers, not immigrants. There are records of their entries, whereabouts and departures; they pay all corresponding taxes as all other workers, and are protected by federal and state labor laws.

Thus, there is no need to enter into negotiations with any country to establish a "guest-worker" program, as there is already one in place with all the rules and regulations needed in accordance to our own country's laws.

It is in the agricultural field that Mexicans and Central Americans come into play, as a majority of them enter illegally due to the lack of interest from the majority of businesses in that industry to undertake the process of securing the H-2A guest-worker visas, in part due to the political protection afforded them by elected officials.

And, due to the high number of illegal border crossers, numerous other industries have joined in hiring practices that have "adversely affected the wages and working conditions" of U.S. workers, and are now greatly dependent on such labor. However, many of these industries did have difficulties obtaining dependable local labor before joining in the dispute of hiring undocumented workers, thus entering into such practice for business survival.

What we need to accept is that a vast majority of Mexican/Central American undocumented immigrants do not threaten the employment of any high-skilled U.S. worker, but rather take jobs that a majority of workers do not want.

Our course of action should be to demand through our elected officials that industries that claim to need such labor prove it to the satisfaction of our existing laws, and if such need is certified, use the lawful remedy already available.

In industries for which there are presently no "H" visas available that may need inclusion, for instance eating establishments and hospitality industries -- new "H" visa categories should be created with its own rules.

[Snuffington]

These people have no stake in America they do not even have immigrant status due to the nature of their visas they are for all intents and purposes slaves.

That's more true of the "L" visa holders than the "H" ones.

[harpseal]

That's more true of the "L" visa holders than the "H" ones.

It is true of both time for them to leave now. We can be really generous and give them a month to pack up and leave and maybe even allow their employers two weeks notice but get them out now.

[Alouette]

Electric power system engineers. During the internet bubble most engineering students went to hi-tech related programs. Traditional power engineering programs were discontinued at most universities due to lack of applicants. The older professionals are now retiring, creating a very serious shortage, at a time when the power system infrastructure has lagged behind and needs extensive expansion.

Please come over here and tell that to all the EE's that I went to college with. I can't promise to protect you.

[Mihalis]

You didn't get it. I'm talking about a special kind of EE's. The internet bubble engineers are EE's too. I'm talking about EE's who work in the planning, analysis and design of the electric power infrastructure.

[Alouette]

I went to college in the '80's. No "internet" EE's at that time.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

"There are certain H categories where there are simply no qualified Americans. Revoking those will bring those industries to a stall."

Whether it is an electrical power plant or nursing or whatever, there are qualified Americans. The supply and demand may not be in the employer's favor in certain fields, and it might cost them more $$, but there are at least closely-qualified Americans. It is possible that a little cross-training or job specific training might be needed, but that was once very common place.
With the proper incentives, like $$, college classes for every needed job skill will fill with Americans. And, personally, I don't care if half these students need to start with remedial math; as long as they are Americans, we should be investing in them, not foreigners. Our children may lack the motivation of many non-citizens when it comes to doing their homework, but their I.Q.s are more than sufficient.
H & L visa workers remove the incentives in every field they are hired into, leaving an unhealthy void in the American workforce. Thereafter, the H & L visa workers will be indespensible.

[Mihalis]

If you are an EE in the elctric power field I can get you a job in the USA anytime.

[Mihalis]

...Whether it is an electrical power plant or nursing or whatever, there are qualified Americans...

Let me give you an example: in transmission planning, which is a specialized EE field, the ratio of available positions to qualified workers is about 2 to 1. The ratio of available positions to qualified American workers is more like 3 to 1. There's no quick solution here without issuing more H visas.

[Mihalis]

Sorry, my post #28 was to be addressed to you.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

I am suggesting that for enough money, the currently experienced will delay retirement until a younger EE needing specific training can be trained.
Or, use the H visa to train the younger EE for the specific area. This will take money, and many U.S. corporations want to cut costs with visa workers. In so doing they are hurting America in the long run and destroying any future pool of American EE with the necessary job skills.
Training or further education of closely qualified candidates was once a normal business expense.
The IEEE states that there is unusually high unemployment among all fields of engineering right now. Where do you get your statistics? Corporate execs have been dishonest with congress regarding how many IT visa workers are needed, at a time of high American unemployment in this field. By lying to congress they can get more indentured servants and get an even bigger annual bonus for themselves. Maybe the same thing is being done by electrical power plants.

[Mihalis]

The IEEE states that there is unusually high unemployment among all fields of engineering right now. Where do you get your statistics?

The IEEE is correct about the high EE unemployment, especially as it applies to EE graduates of the last 10 years or so. My point applies to my own specific area where there's an unprecedented shortage created by three factors:

(1)The lack of university programs, which were discontinued years ago as EE applicants rushed into hi-tech programs.

(2)Retirements of experienced engineers and managers in my field. They all seem to be ready to retire now for some reason. Many of them are doing what you suggest, posponing their retirement.

(3)The massive multi-billion dollar investments in infrastructure taking place because of the restructuring of the industry.

Our firm needs people and we can't find them. Our competitors are also looking. I had 3-4 offers in the last six months without even applying for anything. I know this is not typical of the entire EE field. But my point is that a blanket ruling to reduce H visas will hurt certain industries such as mine.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

How long would it take an average EE major to take the additonal classes/training to be up to speed in this specialized industry?
As in some of the medical field, there may be a reason to keep some visa workers for a short time. The NAEA mentioned in another thread suggests lowering (but not eliminating visa workers). Their website is on this thread/posting with the article about them:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/933473/posts?page=35#35
It sounds like you think this is a more reasonable approach. So long as Americans are hired as soon as they specialize and qualify, I'm okay with what you are suggesting.

[hedgetrimmer]

UC Davis developed a lettuce harvesting machine in the late 1970's. The project was shelved after the UFW and assorted politicians raised holy heck over its development. If used, it would have dramatically reduced the cost of lettuce to the consumer.

[harpseal]

UC Davis developed a lettuce harvesting machine in the late 1970's. The project was shelved after the UFW and assorted politicians raised holy heck over its development. If used, it would have dramatically reduced the cost of lettuce to the consumer.

If used it would have dramatically improved the productivuty of the farm worker on the lettuce farm. However, whenever we shelve productivity for political reasons it will come back to haunt us.

[harpseal]

I can see a short term limited use of guest workers in this field buit I would rather the companies sponsor permanent immigrants to fill these slots and that they either colleges and universities to graduate people with tehse specialtioies or provide additional education for those unemployed hi-tech engineers who might jump at the chance to get on board this field.

[MACK_DADDY]

H-1B workers are paid equal to or higher wages than US Workers because their wages are literally dictated and enforced by the Department of Labor, which require high salaries in order to dissuade the displacement of American workers. It is therefore more expensive to pay for an Indian H-1B than it is to pay an American worker, because with an American worker, you can pay them whatever you want, as long as it is above minimum wage.

Go here for the Federally mandated wage library, wherein wages for foreign (H-1B and Green Card) workers are etched in stone, and as you can see, are generally higher than what most American citizen workers in this country get, for any type of job.

Before an H-1B can work here, the employer has to have a labor certification approved first, and compliance with the DOL wage standards are mandatory.

[harpseal]

H-1B workers are paid equal to or higher wages than US Workers because their wages are literally dictated and enforced by the Department of Labor, which require high salaries in order to dissuade the displacement of American workers. It is therefore more expensive to pay for an Indian H-1B than it is to pay an American worker, because with an American worker, you can pay them whatever you want, as long as it is above minimum wage. Go here for the Federally mandated wage library, wherein wages for foreign (H-1B and Green Card) workers are etched in stone, and as you can see, are generally higher than what most American citizen workers in this country get, for any type of job.

Lie 1. And I can personally attest to this along with many others.

Before an H-1B can work here, the employer has to have a labor certification approved first, and compliance with the DOL wage standards are mandatory.

That labor certification is that there are NO QUALIFIED AMERICANS FOR THE JOB The IT industry belies that as being enforced. If the laws were enforced there would be no H1B visa holders working in IT in the USA.

[harpseal]

The employer also must inform workers of the intent to hire a foreign worker by posting the completed LCA, Form ETA 9035 or Form ETA 9035E for the position. The posting must occur within the 30 day period preceding the date that the form is submitted to the DOL. Posting may occur in one of two methods: hard copy or electronic notice. The hard copy notice must be given to the bargaining representative for workers in the occupation or, if there is no bargaining representative, be posted for 10 consecutive days in at least two conspicuous locations at each place of employment where any H-1B nonimmigrant will be employed. The electronic notice must be distributed at each place of employment where any H-1B nonimmigrant will be employed. Distribution can be by whatever means the employer normally communicates with its employees (e-mail, bulletin board, and home webpage). A copy of the LCA must also be provided to each H-1B nonimigrant.

I have seen numerous H1b visa IT workers hired without this notice.

[MACK_DADDY]

Specifically, in that post #36, what was the lie? Can you please quote what exactly was the lie?

[MACK_DADDY]

Where?