1 posted on
06/21/2003 5:53:58 AM PDT by
rudy45
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-39 next last
To: rudy45; Joe Brower
Now you've done it.
2 posted on
06/21/2003 5:58:54 AM PDT by
Tijeras_Slim
(I am not a prime demographic, I am a MAN!)
To: *bang_list
Ping for information (I just use hair spray with a lighter myself)
3 posted on
06/21/2003 5:59:54 AM PDT by
chance33_98
(http://home.frognet.net/~thowell/haunt/ ---->our ghosty page)
To: rudy45
In terms of physics the round that is able to transfer most of it's power is the round with the most stopping power.
That's why the .45 is so popular. It's large cross section does that quite nicely. But some people like the 9mm because if you use the right type it'll open up nicely and perform very similar.
5 posted on
06/21/2003 6:01:36 AM PDT by
Bogey78O
(check it out... http://freepers.zill.net/users/bogey78o_fr/puppet.swf)
To: rudy45
If I remember my physics correctly, force=mass times the square of acceleration.
F=ma; KE=(mv^2)/2
6 posted on
06/21/2003 6:02:20 AM PDT by
sasquatch
To: rudy45
I'm not an expert in this subject, but I believe location, location, location of the slugs impact is a good barometer of stopping power.
7 posted on
06/21/2003 6:02:42 AM PDT by
Fzob
(Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
To: rudy45
Foot Pounds of Energy, Expansion of the bullet and accuracy (target placement). In other words Physics and Training (maybe Talent).
8 posted on
06/21/2003 6:03:02 AM PDT by
Woodman
To: rudy45
Well, FWIW, practical experience suggests that the .45 ACP does the job.
I would just get that and fuggedaboudit. :-D
9 posted on
06/21/2003 6:04:02 AM PDT by
AnAmericanMother
(. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
To: rudy45
Velocity and penetration are important. If the bullet gets stopped by clothing, body armor, etc., there's virtually no stopping power.
10 posted on
06/21/2003 6:12:41 AM PDT by
TERMINATTOR
(Don't tread on me!)
To: rudy45
The only thing that counts in "stopping power" is transfer of momentum. The round has to have momentum = mass x velocity and it has to impart it to the target. A heavy fast round is generally better. Try a 105 Howitzer, if you can aim it with one hand. For hand guns, I think the M1911 (Army .45) if not the winner, is right up there and more than adequate for most work.
If a round passes through a target is does not impart all its momentum. If the round bounces off the target, counter-intuitively, it gets momentum from the target and actually transfers more momentum. If you had armor which caused bullets to bounce off, they would actually transfer more momentum than rounds that stuck to the armor.
In practice, you should chose a weapon for self defense that you are comfortable with. If the recoil or weight of a 0.45 is more than you can comfortably handle, you may be better off with a smaller weapon. Regardless, remember, keep shooting. "Why'd you shoot him 44 times?" , "Ran out of ammunition." One shot from a 0.38 is about as likely to infuriate as drive off an assailant. And shoot to kill. The sternum is a good target, even if you miss you might hit something.
To: rudy45
The key is to transmit as much energy as possible from the bullet to the target. In theory you could push a .22 fast enough to carry more enery than a .380. But the cross section of the bullet is so small that it cant transmit its energy to the target rapidly and "shock" the target.
Velocity + mass + a good quality hollow point bullet that will expand rapidly and retain its mass are the key to "stopping power".
12 posted on
06/21/2003 6:16:23 AM PDT by
heckler
(wiskey for my men, beer for my horses)
To: rudy45
My formula is,
.45ACP (any quality pistol) + 100 rounds a week (practice) + 2 rounds into the target (tap-tap) = unbelievable stopping power.
13 posted on
06/21/2003 6:19:20 AM PDT by
x1stcav
( HOOAHH!)
To: rudy45
For what it's worth, the United States Army continues to discover that the 9mm round is inadequate in re 'stopping power' in combat. Multiple complaints coming out of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are documented in official 'lessons learned' reports.
The reason the Army adopted the .45 in the first place was that the .38 caliber pistol was too weak when used against the Moro tribesmen in the Phillipines, and hence when the .45 was successful in shooting and stopping doped-up insurgents, it became the M1911 service pistol.
I own a Beretta 9mm, and hope to buy a Kahr 9mm for concealed carry, regardless of these facts. Why? Combat engagement ranges are usually in excess of 50 meters, and personal protection situations usually are less than 10 meters. I'm gaining concealment of a smaller weapon for the trade off in stopping power (particularly at distance). Plus I plan and train to shoot two rounds center mass of target, and then re-evaluate the threat.
So, it really comes down to what you're comfortable carrying, shooting and hitting your target with.
To: rudy45
The physics are pretty straightforward regarding the terminal ballistics of various rounds. Obviously, the larger, and heavier, and faster a bullet is, the more energy it has available at impact.
How this energy translates to 'stopping power' is less clear cut. No two people are built the same, and there are examples where a .22 into the arm can 'stop' some people, while 4 or 5 rounds to the chest from a .45 might not be enough to 'stop' someone else (at least in time for it to matter.)
Use as big and as fast a round as you are comfortable using. A fast 9mm round may carry as much energy as a slower but heavier .45 round, but unless you hit something, it won't matter.
Personally, I like the 9mm CorBon +P 115gr JHP. Either that or a firm tone of voice will stop most people.
15 posted on
06/21/2003 6:29:37 AM PDT by
spodefly
(This is my tagline. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
To: rudy45
Interesting subject. The Momentum vs. Kinetic energy theories.
Momentum has an emphasis on mass...a la the .45 at a moderate velocity(830-900 fps). 185-200 gr JHP being the most effective in this range.
Kinetic has the emphasis on higher velocity a la the 9mm. The 115 gr JHP at 1300-1500 fps has been the standard, although the FBI tried to up the weight and get closer to the Momentum side with the 147 gr JHP at a sub-sonic velocity(950 fps).
The 10mm was a total step in combining the two., high velocity(1300 fps) and bullet mass and weight(.40 caliber/200 gr JHP)
Problem with the 10mm was it battered the guns badly. So, the FBI went to the 10mm Lite. A toned down velocity(900 FPS). This left a large amount of the case empty and a possible detonation might occur.
In steps S&W with a modified 10mm cartridge....small primered, 200 gr JHP, moderate velocity, substaintial crosssection(.40 cal) and POOF!! the 40 S&W is born.
Now, having said all that, it comes down to which portion of the stopping power curve you want to be on. Recoil plays a key role in this. You certainly want to have control of the weapon...9mm being fairly easy to handle is still adequate for defense. The 125 gr 357 Magnum is sited as the best for stopping power, but you pay in recoil.
FORGET ABOUT 1-SHOT STOPPING POWER. There is no such thing as it takes a brain or spine shot to effect a complete shutdown of a perp, both iffy under stress. Proper bullet placement and 'hit them til they go down' no matter the caliber should be how you train.
18 posted on
06/21/2003 6:40:49 AM PDT by
Pistolshot
(I speak from practical experience, and the nightmares STILL haven't gone away.)
To: rudy45
comments about .380 (e.g. "great for shooting mice" or "what are you going to do with it, THROW it at your attacker?"). As a person who loads and carries many calibers, I think these statements do not bear out with ER statistics. A .380 Hydrashock, etc. can be a deadly round. I do not weigh 300 pounds. I cannot conceal my .45 Colt Combat Commander MKII in the Summertime. I carry a .380 simply because I cannot conceal the Sig 226, either.
I think comments like that are best reserved to the useless and annoying .25ACP. They neglect that fact that in many places, if used in self-defense, you WILL use it at powder burn range, or you will go down for murder.
20 posted on
06/21/2003 6:47:59 AM PDT by
Gorzaloon
(Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
To: rudy45
I once attended a triple funeral for three people each killed with one .22lr shot to the head.
22 posted on
06/21/2003 7:01:36 AM PDT by
Eagle Eye
(There ought to be a law against excessive legislation.)
To: rudy45; 45Auto; glock rocks
Bump.
To: rudy45
The ratio of the area of the disc brake to that of the brake pad is the co-efficient of "stopping power"....with the weight of the vehicle also a contributing factor...(g)
27 posted on
06/21/2003 7:09:46 AM PDT by
ken5050
To: rudy45
This usually freezes them in their tracks.
Otherwise, 45ACP 185 JHP or in a revolver .38 Special +P 147 Hydrashock.
28 posted on
06/21/2003 7:13:48 AM PDT by
Tijeras_Slim
(I am not a prime demographic, I am a MAN!)
To: rudy45
Shot placement is a factor in stopping power. Two to the torso (center of mass) and one to the head. Try to put them all in front so your testimony that you were in fear for your life sounds credible. It helps if the stiff when found has something sharp and shiny in his/her hand.
31 posted on
06/21/2003 7:27:44 AM PDT by
RicocheT
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-39 next last
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson