An INSANE situation up in Waltham, Massachusetts

Conservative Alerts.Com ^ | Chuck Muth

[Courier]

The State is correct.

Parents can homeschool but the State has a compelling interest to know that these kids are not being subjected to what would amount to child abuse resulting in an uneducated person who may end up on the State dole at best, a sociopath or psychopath at worst.

All the government wants is to know they are really being educated.

From the parents' behavior, I believe the State has good cause for concern.

[Courier]

The State is correct.

Parents can homeschool but the State has a compelling interest to know that these kids are not being subjected to what would amount to child abuse resulting in an uneducated person who may end up on the State dole at best, a sociopath or psychopath at worst.

All the government wants is to know they are really being educated.

From the parents' behavior, I believe the State has good cause for concern.

[Courier]

The State is correct.

Parents can homeschool but the State has a compelling interest to know that these kids are not being subjected to what would amount to child abuse resulting in an uneducated person who may end up on the State dole at best, a sociopath or psychopath at worst.

All the government wants is to know they are really being educated.

From the parents' behavior, I believe the State has good cause for concern.

[Courier]

The State is correct.

Parents can homeschool but the State has a compelling interest to know that these kids are not being subjected to what would amount to child abuse resulting in an uneducated person who may end up on the State dole at best, a sociopath or psychopath at worst.

All the government wants is to know they are really being educated.

From the parents' behavior, I believe the State has good cause for concern.

[jmc813]

You've been on FR since 1997 and you have the "society" obsession?!?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Statement: " An INSANE situation up in Waltham, Massachusetts."

Response: Assuming the truth is being reported correctly: Do you not have trees in Massachusetts? Do you not have feathered creatures? Is not tar and/or molasses sold in the State? Was not something dumped in Boston harbor a long, long time ago? I do not understand?

[jmc813]

Well we'll see how good your assurances are when they try to get jobs or go to college.

If they want to go to college, they will voluntarily take the SAT's. Big difference.

[Sloth]

The sort of opinion I'd expect from someone voluntarily living in France.

[GOPrincess]

It seems to me that a very big point is being missed in this conversation, which is that many parents homeschool at least partially so that they can teach things at the pace and in the order they feel is best for their child, according to the child's developmental needs. This may mean one child reads great at age 5 but it may also mean another child doesn't do their multiplication tables until age 11. With all the time wasted in public schools, there's no reason an older homeschooled child who is developmentally ready can't pick up a subject at an older age, whiz through it, and come out just as well-educated in the long run as children in classes of 30 who begin struggling with some subjects before they're ready.

The public schools in CA somehow think that part of the answer to "fixing" schools here is pushing that subjects be taught at an ever-earlier age which, in my view, are often not developmentally appropriate (i.e., multiplication tables in 2nd grade). I have a child who could do them easily at 6, but I also have a child who was hugely frustrated by this (despite hours of hands-on parental involvement) and would have been much better off waiting until age 10 (the age my parents were taught them in CA, when schools were also much better!).

The point is that if we expect privately homeschooled students to complete standardized tests, then we are forcing those parents to teach to the test according to the standards set by the state, rather than according to their child's individual needs, thus giving up one of the great benefits of homeschooling.

There are other reasons testing shouldn't be required of private homeschoolers (I differentiate between public school charter homeschoolers who agree to testing in advance)which have been covered here. I just want to point out it's not as simple as the idea "Give them a standardized test to make sure they're learning, any homeschooled student being taught well will ace it."

[GOPrincess]

It seems to me that a very big point is being missed in this conversation, which is that many parents homeschool at least partially so that they can teach things at the pace and in the order they feel is best for their child, according to the child's developmental needs. This may mean one child reads great at age 5 but it may also mean another child doesn't do their multiplication tables until age 11. With all the time wasted in public schools, there's no reason an older homeschooled child who is developmentally ready can't pick up a subject at an older age, whiz through it, and come out just as well-educated in the long run as children in classes of 30 who begin struggling with some subjects before they're ready.

The public schools in CA somehow think that part of the answer to "fixing" schools here is pushing that subjects be taught at an ever-earlier age which, in my view, are often not developmentally appropriate (i.e., multiplication tables in 2nd grade). I have a child who could do them easily at 6, but I also have a child who was hugely frustrated by this (despite hours of hands-on parental involvement) and would have been much better off waiting until age 10 (the age my parents were taught them in CA, when schools were also much better!).

The point is that if we expect privately homeschooled students to complete standardized tests, then we are forcing those parents to teach to the test according to the standards set by the state, rather than according to their child's individual needs, thus giving up one of the great benefits of homeschooling.

There are other reasons testing shouldn't be required of private homeschoolers (I differentiate between public school charter homeschoolers who agree to testing in advance)which have been covered here. I just want to point out it's not as simple as the idea "Give them a standardized test to make sure they're learning, any homeschooled student being taught well will ace it."

[Sloth]

The sort of opinion I'd expect from someone voluntarily living in France.

[GOPrincess]

It seems to me that a very big point is being missed in this conversation, which is that many parents homeschool at least partially so that they can teach things at the pace and in the order they feel is best for their child, according to the child's developmental needs. This may mean one child reads great at age 5 but it may also mean another child doesn't do their multiplication tables until age 11. With all the time wasted in public schools, there's no reason an older homeschooled child who is developmentally ready can't pick up a subject at an older age, whiz through it, and come out just as well-educated in the long run as children in classes of 30 who begin struggling with some subjects before they're ready.

The public schools in CA somehow think that part of the answer to "fixing" schools here is pushing that subjects be taught at an ever-earlier age which, in my view, are often not developmentally appropriate (i.e., multiplication tables in 2nd grade). I have a child who could do them easily at 6, but I also have a child who was hugely frustrated by this (despite hours of hands-on parental involvement) and would have been much better off waiting until age 10 (the age my parents were taught them in CA, when schools were also much better!).

The point is that if we expect privately homeschooled students to complete standardized tests, then we are forcing those parents to teach to the test according to the standards set by the state, rather than according to their child's individual needs, thus giving up one of the great benefits of homeschooling.

There are other reasons testing shouldn't be required of private homeschoolers (I differentiate between public school charter homeschoolers who agree to testing in advance)which have been covered here. I just want to point out it's not as simple as the idea "Give them a standardized test to make sure they're learning, any homeschooled student being taught well will ace it."

[GOPrincess]

Good heavens, I really didn't click three times! I think FR is having a little bit of a problem this afternoon :).

[Arpege92]

I can see your point but to boldly state "we will do with them as we see fit".....is over the line. Who's really in control here? The public school system is not doing its job and that is forcing more and more people to either home school their children or send them to a private school.

These schools have to be held accountable....which they are not. But to turn around and remove children from their home because of a test proves that liberals want to control every part of our lives. It's that we know what is best for people attitude.

[GOPrincess]

And removing children over the matter of a test seems particularly silly given the poor job being done by many schools.

Get this: my child's high school history teacher just cancelled the final they were going to have this week as he learned he must give a standardized district test instead. He has never covered the material on the district test, so is giving them an open-book test. Boy, is the district going to get a great idea of how standards are being met, or what? (We've had a lot of problems with this teacher and I'm reporting this *after* my daughter's final grade is in.) With all the crazy stuff that goes on in public schools, I think districts need to get off their high horses when it comes to homeschoolers and worry about doing their own laundry first, so to speak.

[katiebelle]

To take the position that homeschoolers are exempt from standardized testing (which is the least intrusive way for a state to determine that, yes, the kids are actually being educated instead of watching the cartoon channel all day) is like saying "heck, I'm a good driver, I don't need no stinkin' license, so I ain't gonna get one!" Well, yeah, maybe you are a good driver, and maybe you aren't, but if you are going to be on the roads with the rest of us we would like more than just your word on it!


Very good point! I think we could come up with several examples along those lines. TO go to college these children at the very least will eventually have to take the GED, correct? What about the ACT and SAT as well? I am afraid as well meaning as these parents might be they are losing sight of the big eventual picture. You know there are lots of occupations that require standardized testing as well. Doctor, lawyer, teacher, stock broker, police officer, just to name a few.

[concerned about politics]

The function of the public school is to identify intelligence, and then either subvert or destroy it.

Yep! Goals 2000 is designed to make sure the students "think" correctly. Academics weren't suppose to matter until after the social change ( which was to be complete by the year 2000, hence it's name) - "Changing society through the minds of the children". Everyone is taught to accept all aspects of a socialized society.
In the year 2000, all children , k-12, have gone through the re-training.
Haven't you wondered why the test scores were irrelevant to the NEA? Why students need only a score of 30% to pass? Does it sound like academics are on the top of their list? Why, it's not fair one person be smarter than another!
One may rise above factory worker status! Socialist see that as a threat.

[vaudine]

"...we are a nation of laws..."

However, this and thousands of other things we are instructed to do is policy, with rules dreamed up and controlled by unelected bureaucrats.

There are several thousand too many laws, today, followed by hundreds of thousands of policy rules, local statutes, etc.

I agree with the poster who said let them get privately tested.

Having taken part in standardized school testing, I can say that it varies a lot. I once taught for an unprincipled principal who rammed the test through in one day instead of two morning sessions. By lunch, the kids were just marking answers, not even reading the questions because they were tired. Other places, it has been taken seriously and administered properly. After all this, I would not trust the Waltham, Mass. testing.

vaudine

[concerned about politics]

Have fun getting your kids into college.

I don't know about your state, but in NY homeschoolers are put on the top of the list. They're smart kids. The colleges know it, too.

[Lancey Howard]

Massachusetts? Haha, who cares? Those people get what they vote for up there.
It's why people in surrounding states refer to them as "mass-holes".

On the other hand, one day somebody is going to get really serious about defending their children from the government schools and their "fisting for kindergardners" curriculum and just start mowing the scumbags down. Then there will be all kinds of hand-wringing about how the government needs to confiscate firearms from people.

(Yawn) The beat goes on in that sick pisspot, Massachusetts.