Posted on 06/16/2003 3:21:35 PM PDT by webber
Regarding the other point, when you allow the State to own your children - and you must allow it, for it is not a God-given thing - you end up with Hitler Youth. No thank you. Obviously, this Waltham couple is not going to allow it, and I praise God for such parents!
This is known as a personal attack, something not allowed on this forum. Can't you follow the rules, Sarah?
That is your opinion of the 60's civil rights marches?
I guess we can throw those rebels of the Revolutionary War in that pot too and of course those farmers in the Klamath Basin should have just shut up, gone home and watched their farms dry up and blow away. Those law breakers that ran the Underground Railroad were awful too.
Laws and respect for the law are what separates man from animals.
Is that right? I thought it was having been made in the image of God? Or our ability to talk. Or use tools. But what do I know? Jesus sure got it wrong when he said " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." He makes it sound like respect for God and man are more important than the love of law. He even claims it is the very essence of all the law. When He said "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's" I didn't realize He meant your children too.
Then this couple comes along and decides to risk all the hard work of the home school movement by refusing to recognise the laws on the books. I call that selfish and irresponsible. You call that patriotic.
How do the actions of this couple risk the work of other home schoolers? Are you expecting retaliatory actions from the State on all home schoolers for this couple's refusal to cooperate? Do you accept that as appropriate government action?
I didn't call it patriotic, you mischaracterize my words again. By your logic the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto who revolted were selfish and irresponsible because they caused the Nazi's to come down harder on the rest. I consider defiance of tyranny to be an act of compassion and wisdom.
You seem to be offended that you have been characterized as a socialist. I don't understand that. You are a staunch defender of the State, a socialist POV. If that is the philosophy you believe in stand up and take the label proudly. As for me I believe in the rule of law very strongly, particularly as desribed by our Constitution as a Constitutional Republic. By its very nature the Constitution gives primacy to "the people" not the State and nowhere does it make reference to 'society'.
I guess I don't do "go along to get along" very well.
I think she's just pointing out that you don't practice what you preach. It puts a really fine point on your hypocrisy when you complain that other's are calling you names.
That's a good point, however I believe guns should be kept out of the hands of felons, the insane, and the incompetent (unsupervised children.)
In this case, I am skeptical as to whether it is the government's job to ensure that children are educated to the government's standards. I do not fear uneducated people. I fear immoral and evil people. There is a profound difference.
This thread has been really good for getting past the sensationalism to the facts. It seems that the students, even when schooled at home, could benefit from cooperation. Waltham must have a lot of programs in sports and in the arts that the students would have access to. They could be taking courses the parents can't provide.
I'll defend the home-school concept, even though I've seen situations where maybe the students were missing some things. But using two teenagers to carry out an agenda? No way is that acceptable.
The insane have lost their rights through due process and I would hope that included driving as well. Felons also have lost their rights through due process but I don't agree with that. If a person has paid for their crime their rights should be restored in full, IMO. If a given felon can be considered a continuing threat to the community then they shouldn't be set free in the first place. More stringent and appropriate sentencing is needed in this country. Children have been allowed to use guns, unsupervised, from the founding of this country to the present. This has only somewhat changed in the last thirty years. I was given a gun of my own at 15 and I posed no threat to anyone with it.
I do not fear uneducated people. I fear immoral and evil people. There is a profound difference.
Amen to that! There is also a profound difference between educated and intelligent. Intelligence is a native quality of the mind, education is merely the rote schooling of the mind in a particular subject.
You really ought to change your nick. It doesn't fit.
Because these parents want to make a point and get publicity, ...
An assumption on your part. I see nothing in the article to back up that assertion. They seem like people who want to be left alone not draw attention to themselves.
Unfortunately part of that education includes continual lessons in stupidity and spitefulness that can't be good for any child.
Refusing to kowtow to the government and cede away their authority as parents is stupid and spiteful?
Constitution lover my eye.
What agenda? The agenda of sovereignty over one's own children?
Read the whole thread. The whole thing started because the parents did not file an education plan with the town, as is required if the student isn't attending school. That's how DSS got involved, and it spun out of control.
I wish someone could get the parents on line to find out why they didn't submit a plan.
It comes down to that education plan. If it had been submitted and there was no reasonable dialogue, then the parents might have a gripe.
If anyone here knows the parents, I really do wish they'd start a thread.
That would be good. Until then we can only speculate as to their exact motivations.
I still think it is wrong for the government to have any say about whether parents educate their children or not, much less how they educate them.
It's a Catch 22. If the schools don't maintain standards, then people complain that the public schools are cesspools and nobody is learning anything. If they have a requirement like this, some people will complain it's an infraction on the rights of parents.
I personally think the public schools are only responsible for the basic skills to be a good citizen, get a job, and function in society. Parents should have to demonstrate their students have achieved this much, so the children are prepared to function in the adult world.
In these cases, though, more should be required. I don't know if this came up on the thread. These home study students who keep up with an approved plan graduate with their classes and have a public school diploma from that local school. So, of course there have to be some assurances that the student isn't being given a gift, sitting home and not up to the same level as students in school.
The alternatives? Private schools, GEDs, and Junior/Senior year in a public college.
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