[Shooter 2.5]

I saw a Cadillac deflected by a VW bug. The Cadillac still won.

Since you didn't address that comment to me, I missed it. That's pretty good. I'll have to remember that one.

As Eaker said: Agreed. I was adding a bit of information when people talk about brush busters. Yes, It will go through brush. It just may fail as to where in the brush it may wind up.

This subject had come up once in a while and I have spent hours looking for that particular picture without success. The closest I can tell each of you is kind of a humorous portion of a video that was sold a long time back called "Deadly Weapons". It was a entertaining video with no real science to it. They put some brush in a pile and tried to shoot through it. Some rounds made it and the narrator was shocked that a .50 BMG was deflected. The look on his face was funny. I mentioned the .50 before but I thought I would elaborate on it some more.

[Blue Collar Christian]

I do believe I have seen said video. Just about any projectile will be deflected by debris, brush, even wind gusts. The factor I find most important about the problem of deflection, is how far from the target is the deflection going to take place. As I believe it was you(maybe not)who asks the MOA of deflection; if the MOA is slight, as it could be with a fast, heavy projectile, proximity to the target, even size of the target, may make the risk of deflection well worth the shot in combat. With a semi-auto repeater, the 1st or subsequent rounds may clear the offending brush from the shooting lane. This rather wordy statement being the meaning of the Cadillac vs. the Bug.

Lots of good arguments for the pros and cons of mouse guns(I love my AR-15)vs. a good fast .30 cal like .30-06 SPRG or .308 WIN or even and 8x57 MAUSER. If I had to do the combat gig where potential shots will have risks of deflection from grasses or brush, I might want to carry that M-14 loaded up with 7.62 NATO, as long as I didn't have to climb alot of mountains. It would be nice to know the situation one is facing for the day and have a choice.

I was just watching on the History Channel how during WW2 in the Pacific theater, a particular Marine commander set up a squad with a squad leader, and three groups of three gunmen. The leader was carring a 1911, and each group was armed with a BAR, an M-1 Garrand and a Tommygun. Now that's firepower!

Best bet is to be a good rifleman.

[Blue Collar Christian]

I do believe I have seen said video. Just about any projectile will be deflected by debris, brush, even wind gusts. The factor I find most important about the problem of deflection, is how far from the target is the deflection going to take place. As I believe it was you(maybe not)who asks the MOA of deflection; if the MOA is slight, as it could be with a fast, heavy projectile, proximity to the target, even size of the target, may make the risk of deflection well worth the shot in combat. With a semi-auto repeater, the 1st or subsequent rounds may clear the offending brush from the shooting lane. This rather wordy statement being the meaning of the Cadillac vs. the Bug.

Lots of good arguments for the pros and cons of mouse guns(I love my AR-15)vs. a good fast .30 cal like .30-06 SPRG or .308 WIN or even and 8x57 MAUSER. If I had to do the combat gig where potential shots will have risks of deflection from grasses or brush, I might want to carry that M-14 loaded up with 7.62 NATO, as long as I didn't have to climb alot of mountains. It would be nice to know the situation one is facing for the day and have a choice.

I was just watching on the History Channel how during WW2 in the Pacific theater, a particular Marine commander set up a squad with a squad leader, and three groups of three gunmen. The leader was carring a 1911, and each group was armed with a BAR, an M-1 Garrand and a Tommygun. Now that's firepower!

Best bet is to be a good rifleman.