Teachers earn more than editors & reporters

email ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

The Summer 2003 edition of the education journal "Education Next" has statistics on teacher pay from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that match my own research. To quote: "Teachers earn more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, registered nurses, university-level foreign-language teachers, and editors and reporters." The statistics exclude benefits, which are far richer for teachers than for private-sector employees.

On a related note, the web site of a private citizen has great graphs and stats on government spending. One graph shows how education productivity has declined by 70 percent over the last 40 years, based on the ratio of SAT scores to inflation-adjusted per-pupil spending. The graph can be found at:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/education.htm

Regards,

Craig J. Cantoni

Capstone Consulting Group

480-661-8175

Fax 480-661-8155

[Diva Betsy Ross]

So your only arugment with me is that I was mistaken about the teachers getting a tax rebate, which is really ONLY a tax break,( and the teachers I know who got a check back are a figment of my imagination) and that I wrote 12 weeks vacation when it is really more like 10 weeks vacation. You have tired to insult me and call me names, even though you agree there are things wrong with the school system. I can only guess you blame everyone for these problems other than the unions and teachers, which leaves kids and parents and taxpayers.

Or you are just in denial. You agree with one poster that homeschoolers should get tax breaks, and you tell me I can't teach and I don't deserve a tax break because those who vacum are not janitors, and because I homeschool.

Right, you are rational and so relevant. In the words or the great supporter of public education on this thread... NOT.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

ping

[Fury]

According to the authors, if you take into account salary, benefits and hours worked (by union contract around here, they work about a 3 day work week), starting pay is the equivalent to $50/hr!!!

I suppose the real issue here is "What will the market bear"?

Tomorrow is the day for most budget votes in Western New York. I expect that there will be several school district budget votes that go down to defeat. But the issue of teacher compensation, especially health care costs, is one of the fastest increasing budget line items in this area of country. I did some checking and several of the area school's health care plans for teachers include $0 deductables for many items, verey low ($5) co-pays, etc.

One of the areas that needs to be looked at is making sure when a contract is up for a district's collective bargaining unit, that ALL items be on the table - pay, benefits, etc.

Until then, school districts will have to pay whatever the CBA calls for. And ultimately, the "market" (taxpayers in the district) will determine how teachers are compensated. For the school district I am moving to in about 2 weeks, the school taxes are going up ~20% in one year, from ~$17.25 to ~$21.00/$1000 AV.

The issue of what teachers earn is a moot point if double-digit school tax rate increases continue to occur. There will come a time when people simply cannot afford to buy a home. You are hearing of more and more areas in Western New York where the monthly taxes are more than the P&I.

[MurryMom]

I hate to bust your bubble but the recession started on CLINTON's watch.

LOL! You are either in deep denial or an elected Republican official, or both. Since little Dumbya's economic program went into effect in June 2001, the country has lost over 70,000 jobs per month. During Clinton-Gore prosperity, the country GAINED about 230,000 jobs, on average, every month. These are U.S. Government facts, not my opinion.

[cinFLA]

During Clinton-Gore prosperity, the country GAINED about 230,000 jobs, on average, every month. These are U.S. Government facts, not my opinion.

The recession started during Clinton's watch! Clinton/Gore dumped this on us. They gave us the bubble and they burst it stealing billions from the public.

[lizma]

"What will the market bear"?

I wish but I don't think the "market" has a clue here. It's not only a great health plan but a great disability and retirement plan.

Here in Montgomery County Md. they can also qualify for low interest rate housing loans in certain areas of the county. (You'd think "certain areas" in this county would be the sorta inner city housing but I've lived here 15 years and yet to see anything less than middle class areas.)

I'm sure there are other perks we don't even no about. (Malpractice maybe?)

If I go back into the work force, I'd definately considering teaching high school math or science and I've got an MD. Way less stress, way less hours and only a slight drop in my hourly wage and I get a few days off with pay.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

You would get many, many days off with pay. BTW, I don't know if the government schools would consider you qualified to teach with an MD and no teaching certificate from the state. As one poster here has pointed out to me, just because you vacum does not mean you are a janitor. With that reasoning, you may be able to heal people and undersand and prevent illness , but you are not always qualified to teach kids about science. YOu may want to leave that up to the professionals with teaching degrees. It is pretty tricky business I have been told, not something to be done by laypeople like you and me.

[Richard Kimball]

Label me if it helps you but one group calls me a statist another a libertarian others liberal other commie.

You commie statist libertarian liberal Nazis are all alike. Seriesly, I agree with some of your points. However, the issue with home schoolers is that the state spends approximately 8K (depending on the state) per year per student. Home schoolers do not cost the state that money.

OTOH, I personally have always been a little scared of paying people to home school, as I fear home schooling would simply become a method of providing welfare. Most Americans who are disgusted with the welfare state don't say a thing about "earned income tax credits" for people who don't pay taxes, even though that's just welfare called a "tax cut". If they start paying people to home school, other than making books, etc, tax deductible, I guarantee you'll have the same bunch of welfare queens thinking, "hmmm, all I have to do is not send my kids to school and they'll send me an extra $4000 per kid."

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Do you really think all homeschooling parents would turn into welfare recipients if we got a tax break, or even refund. MAny parents who send their kids away to school would not spend time around those kids for all the money in the world. So there may be some scam artists who take advantage of the system, if you gave homeschoolers tax breaks. Don't think for a moment that all of those teachers need to spend alot of money on their classrooms. Those out of pocket extras are sometimes things those teachers WANT, not NEED. If I had $4,000.00 I could buy enough school materials for two kids for 5+ years each. I am not kidding.

The rason issue is why homeschoolers have to support the governement school system and never see any benefits for our families directly. I would still support public education, I just think homeschoolers and people who never have children should have discounted rates. I think homeschoolers should at least get the tax breaks for materials. I can keep my reciepts, just like government teachers can.

[Richard Kimball]

Do you really think all homeschooling parents would turn into welfare recipients if we got a tax break, or even refund.

No, and I didn't say that. Currently, people home school because they love their children and because they want them to have a good education. IF the government starts giving people, for example, $4,000 to cover home school expenses, the people currently home schooling would continue to do a good job. However, a whole bunch of people who couldn't care less about their children would immediately read this as "if I take my kids out of school and say I'm home schooling them, the government will give me $4,000." They will then pull their children out of school, throw them out of the house, turn on Jerry Springer, and collect their $4,000. Then you'll see a huge upswing in crimes committed by "home schooled" children, and the state educrats will come in and say, "see, we told you parents can't be trusted to school their own children, and they'll get control of the home school process. BTW, yes we home school, no I don't want the government money.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

okay, I see your point.. I don't want the government money either, I just want to apy less in taxes. I don't have a problem supporting public education on some level.
I just don't think anyone is getting their money's worth. Espicially us. Best of luck to you and your family. I am sure you understand why I thought you were bashing homeschoolers.

[Richard Kimball]

We're on the same page, and I agree with you that it gets a little frustrating to pay for the government schools and the home schooling expenses. I would like the tax deduction, also. I don't think a true tax deduction would encourage the type of fraud I was discussing in my earlier post. Take care.

[lizma]

I would be required to get a teaching certificate but I happen to like taking classes. What's another year of college?!

[jwh_Denver]

and we couldn't strike if we wanted to.

Would a lock out serve you? Just teach the Scriptures and capitalism and bif communism/socialism.

[rwfromkansas]

Thanks...:) I am planning on going into education. Well I find it interesting that journalists make less money than teachers....(hmmm....that is the other field I seriously pondered going into; journalism is such an exciting field and it is in my blood), but teachers put in a heck of a lot of hours in at home if they are good. And in the summer, contrary to what a lot of people think, teachers spend a lot of time dealing with planning etc. They don't "get 3 months off to sit around and watch Oprah." Many teachers I knew from HS had summer jobs just to pay the bills. These were good people; they loved teaching and instilling knowledge in young minds, but the pay sucks and just isn't enough to support a big family. They are heroes and I salute them. Freepers seem to hate teachers and I can understand why, but they aren't all liberals trying to indoctrinate students.

Quite frankly, one of my favorite teachers from HS is a flaming liberal who sees some conspiracy around every corner. But his passion and his way of getting me to think really made me like the guy. And he is a nice person. Anyway.

[rwfromkansas]

I hope you like my response to the education bashers in post 255.

[DainBramage]

. Freepers seem to hate teachers

Not all Freepers, and alot that you see flaming here don't hate teachers, but they do hate the Unions, and the liberal stuff pushed in some schools. Its just that most of these people have no idea what they are talking about, they include all teachers, from brand new first year, to college prefessor to administrators when they average out pay. Some flame away at everbody no matter what, so you just have to ignore.

Good luck in you career.

[rwfromkansas]

Folks who are talking about the unions:

Do you realize that teachers in most states can't strike? They are unionized, but don't have the power of other unionized labor.

I do not like the NEA.....in fact, I despise the bastards. Same thing with the National Federation for Teachers. But, in many cases, you actually are REQUIRED to join a union in order to be a teacher in a district. You HAVE NO CHOICE. Have you thought about that? Some schools let you choose the union, but others make you join the NEA scum-suckers. I am planning on joining, once I get out of my college years (the plan is for 4 years, an utter joke as the amount of things needed with a double major to get certification is more like 5), a conservative Christian teachers union. But, in some districts, they may force me to join a group I do not agree with.

Next, the legal complexities of liable and what a teacher can and cannot do is a maze. Certification itself is changing; it is requiring a heck of a lot of work by teachers in the classroom and outside regarding continual reflection and proof of improvement. Instead of knocking teachers (except for the ones that deserve knocking of course, as there are bad apples), try to think about just how complex the job is. It is much more than just talking for 45 minutes with a passing period and then going home to lounge around.

[rwfromkansas]

She is FR's token liberal. Doesn't the love for children (I thought it takes a village, Murry??) just exude from her words? :)

[rwfromkansas]

I don't know where the heck you people live, but that just is not typical.....