Teachers earn more than editors & reporters

email ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

The Summer 2003 edition of the education journal "Education Next" has statistics on teacher pay from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that match my own research. To quote: "Teachers earn more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, registered nurses, university-level foreign-language teachers, and editors and reporters." The statistics exclude benefits, which are far richer for teachers than for private-sector employees.

On a related note, the web site of a private citizen has great graphs and stats on government spending. One graph shows how education productivity has declined by 70 percent over the last 40 years, based on the ratio of SAT scores to inflation-adjusted per-pupil spending. The graph can be found at:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/education.htm

Regards,

Craig J. Cantoni

Capstone Consulting Group

480-661-8175

Fax 480-661-8155

[the808bass]

After reading this post, where the people who are supposed to be "teachers" present their best arguments as name calling and running away from the thread, I see my consideration of teachers were too high.

Talk about a bunch of uneducated, emotionaly driven, unprofessional people.

Then again I suspect I am really talking to a teenager with about as much life's experience as my five year old. I believe we have some men who are a bit light in the rational thought department and hysterical women who are used to using their shrill voices as weapon.

I don't suppose you'll be winning any awards soon for consistency in thought, eh?

[the808bass]

Teachers get $250.00 check from the governement for "covering " the cost of out of pocket supplies.

Most teachers I know spend far more than this measly amount personally on supplies, decorations, prizes, etc. for their classrooms....from their own salaries. But they're feeding at the public trough, blah blah, don't confuse me with the facts, yada, yada.

[the808bass]

educating my children is my job

If you cannot distinguish between someone educating people's children and providing a service to the community and you choosing to educate your own children, I'm not sure there's a whole lot of hope for dialogue. There is a fundamental difference in buying a van for your job and a van to haul your kids in, whether you claim "hauling your kids around" as part of your job or not. Perhaps you should petition the state for the salary of a school bus driver to haul your kids and the salary of a school janitor to clean the house.

[the808bass]

Perhaps if it were recognized that parents who homeschool deserve a break on expenses, instead of just being hostile, it would be more reasonable.

I would agree with this. If a person chooses to homeschool, there should be tax breaks for the individual. They shouldn't be enough to be an incentive for homeschooling, but they should at least allow the person to break even on expenses.

[the808bass]

Teachers get $250.00 check from the governement for "covering " the cost of out of pocket supplies.

By the way, this is incorrect. Teachers get to deduct $250 from their taxable income, which comes out to what? a $40 tax cut roughly? Quelle horreur!

[Diva Betsy Ross]

What happens if they don't pay any taxes in the first place? do they get a check..... Why, yes they do. Or at laeast a couple of the teachers I know do.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Which addresses my original point that teachers are glorified civil servants , you are indeed a fool. HAve you ever had an original thought , or do you always spew the liberal party line mumbo jumbo. Try as you might you will never be able to debate like a conservative...You talk in circles, which is fine if you are speaking with your liberal fiends, it does not work with conservatives. We see through the smoke and mirrors.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

So why doesn't everyone who spends money out of pocket for their job get a tax break? Could it be because it is not in the teacher's union best interest? Could it be because that tax break is a kick back... why yes. I was a social worker with just as much money spent on a college degree, and with a small salary. I had none of the perks, none of the job security and none of the kick backs. Did I ever get a kick back for my out of pocket expenses? NO

There are plenty pf people who spend money out of pocket and don't whine about it.

[the808bass]

What happens if they don't pay any taxes in the first place? do they get a check..... Why, yes they do. Or at laeast a couple of the teachers I know do.

Under what circumstances would a teacher not pay any taxes? They would only pay no taxes if they did not exceed $600 salary for a year. The point of this article is how much money they're making. And, just on the off chance that they did pay no taxes, your argument is still wrong. They would not receive a check back. They would simply have 0 for taxable income.

Finally, you're dodging the fact that you stated quite incorrectly that they received a tax rebate of $250. That is demonstrably false (either stated ignorantly or disingenuously, or a combination of the two).

[the808bass]

HAve you ever had an original thought?

Is this more of your reasoned dialogue? It's hard to tell. And you can call people "liberal" all you want. The fact that a person doesn't share your unfounded hatred of everything that is even loosely associated with our public school system does not make them so.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Have you been following this thread or did you just jump in mid- way? I say you think like a liberal because you do not mind that one segment of our population gets a tax break, and they happen to vote mostly Democrat, who BTW do no tthink you and i should get a tax breask, but a tax hike. I happen to think that is interesting.

I never said I hated public education, but it does make attaking me easier for you. I support public education by volunteering and have for four years. I pay huge taxes, even though my children do not attend and I work with teachers and school board members on various tasks in the community.

I loath the population of blood sucking people who present themselves as educators , only to get the kick backs, and perks and produce NOTHING. We are paying tons in taxes to support this system, and it is not working. Why? IMO the unions and the teachers who are lazy and lackluster. The good teachers are the ones who are getting the raw deal. They actually have skills and abilities. They should get fair market value and not be lumped into the cess pool of current day public education. It should be better. Public education should work. If you think it is working, then you have not been around freerepublic long enough. The info is all at your fingertips. Look it up. The $250.00 thing.. well you will have to do more research... when you do you will see that I am right. Just like you did when you discovered it in the first place. Since you want to discredit everything I say, and I told you my personal experience.. you are calling me a liar... only to then find out I am right. I am sure you can see why this little debate is frustrating for me.

[the808bass]

The $250.00 thing.. well you will have to do more research... when you do you will see that I am right. Just like you did when you discovered it in the first place.

Um...no. I "discovered" it last year. If you'd like a link that provides more information on how this decrease in taxable income works, I'd be happy to provide it to you.

I read every post on this thread and thought you made numerous unsubstantiated claims and misstatements of fact. When called on these you have alternately called them small mistakes or, like above, asked the person to research something further when they know more about it than you do, your pretenses notwithstanding.

I am sure you can see why this little debate is frustrating for me.

I can see why this little debate is frustrating for you, though it's not for the reasons you pretend. The fact is that you have presented nothing but your feelings, unsubstantiated by anything more than "everybody knows that....." and "if you're conservative you know that public school is failing." Unfortunately for you, that does not pass for debate.

[the808bass]

I say you think like a liberal because you do not mind that one segment of our population gets a tax break,

Know who else gets tax breaks? People with student loans. Know who else? People who pay for their children's daycare. Know who else? People who move. Know who else? People who itemize deductions and give chunks of money to charity. Know who else? People who continue their education. Know who else? Homeowners. Know who else? Parents with dependent children. (Should I keep going?)

Does it make me a liberal that I'm in support of these "kickbacks"?

[mafree]

I was once told by an English teacher in the Capistrano Valley School district in CA, that he would not assign anything longer than a paragraph because the parents were willing to put our money where our mouths were and hire lay readers to mark his papers.

Lay readers? Never heard of such a thing. You know where they actually do this?

He said marking papers interfered with his surfing.

Sounds like he's a professional surfer and not a professional teacher. Glad I went through school when I did. God help today's public school students.

[Eva]

He told me that the schools in Newport Beach, CA had lay readers who marked papers for the teachers.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

oh let me get this straight, because I made one mistake and admited it, I am wrong on all accounts. I have yet to see you admit your numerous errors or admit you painted me with the wrong brush.

I told you my personal experience was that two teachers I knew got checks from the governement. Why? I don't know I can only guess that sincce they don't pay any taxes ( or get full rebates) . Why don't I get a kickback for investing out of pocket money for my children's education, saving tax payers much money , after paying taxes to support the local school system, or for not having my children in day care and actually raising them myself with no federal money, or for spending money put of pocket for the school district when a social worker? I pay, I don't get.

I see that you agree with another poster who has my same point, yet won't give an inch to me on homeschooler getting tax breaks. Don't pat yourself on the back for being a great debater just yet buddy.

One set of kickbacks goes to all people who own homes, all people who make charitiable donations. Not one group of people who we feel do more than others. Esp. after getting so many other taxpayer supported perks. I realize the only way you can justify my existance on this thread is to try and belittle me, and try to get me to run away.

The unions and bad teachers will ruin public education even further, and you will have an even harder time justifying your love of governement schools ,and whomever it is that you know, or are married to that have to really produce for a living. If your teacher friend is a good teacher then they will be fine, if not they will sink, just like out in the real world. I will say it is about time too. No matter how much you want to call me a liar and uninformed, and try to poo poo everthing I have said, you will see public education self destruct. It won't be my fault, there are so many problems there that not even you could blame people like me for them. Unless you always look for scapegoats.

[the808bass]

Here's the information on this tax break for educators.

Here's the link.

Note that it is an adjustment to gross income and not a "tax rebate" as you claimed.

You and I would agree that there are many problems with our public education system. But complaining without any basis in fact, appealing to things which you think are facts which are not, and appealing to a consensus on a conservative forum which is not representative of the population as a whole will not accomplish much of anything except to make yourself irrelevant in the debate.

[the808bass]

You are right about teachers making too much money for the amount of time they work. They should just make babysitting wages, because that's all they do. Maybe around $5 per hour would be fair. Let's multiply that amount times 8 hours per day which is $40, pretty good money for a babysitter. Now multiply that times the 190 contract days they actually work and we get $7600. Unfortunately, they usually have about 25 students per class, so that averages to about $190,000 per year. Hmmm???? Maybe they should make even less than babysitters.............

Just admit the fact that you always wanted to be a teacher and unfortunately couldn't pass the teacher exit exams....or did you even go to college? Those who can't teach, homeschool.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

You are awfuly bitter my friend. Anyone can pass the teaching exams. Everyone knows that. There are numerous studies which show those who can't do, teach.

I don't say all teachers are bad and you know that. I am sorry you feel so scared that I am a better teacher without a teaching degree than many, many people out there who are getting supported with tax dollars.

Just think I have a five year old who has many friends, can discuss the theory of flight, read and do second grade math. A five year old who loves to read all types of books and has mach time for imaginative play where he invents things daily, even hourly. A five year old who can talk to adults and play with three year olds. He has asked if we can learn to write cursive and learn more about the American flag next year for kindergarten. He also wants to play scoccer and learn kung fu. He is always having sily fun, alone or with his friends. He is polite and thoughtful, and cares about other people. He has a great sense of justice and is always looking out for the people in society who need a little help. He shows his compassion for people whith real weaknesses, like his friends who are developmentaly disabled. He understands that the brain is different from the heart, and all people deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. ( Most likely got this from his Mom who worked with this population for many years). He knows boys are great and he can do anything he works hard at. Right, what a faliure I am. I should shut up, blindly support the school district constant demand for money, and not be resentful that I get no tax break. Afterall I just vacum the house and give birth.

Teachers are the only people in society who really produce great things for this country, and we should be grateful they only demand as much as they do.

I suspect it is your daughter, whom you just supported through college , or your wife who is in public education. Like I said you don't have to be so worried if they are good teachers, if they aren't, well, don't say I did not warn you. The teachers union and those who are bad teachers have no clothes. HA.

BTW if teachers got paid the $190,000 you think they are worth, many would become GOP, oh the horror... who would tell the kids that being GAy is great and they should not spend so much time on math and reading.

Your debating skills are slipping ..... Not emotionaly driven ?, No,not you the great debater.