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INSIDE STORY: Hussein son's wild orders led to Iraq military collapse
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | May 25, 2003 | Robert Collier

Posted on 05/25/2003 3:01:52 AM PDT by sarcasm

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:42:38 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Baghdad -- In the final days before Baghdad fell, Saddam Hussein's son Qusai issued a series of military orders that sent thousands of elite Republican Guard troops to their certain death in the open countryside.

According to accounts provided to The Chronicle by more than a dozen Iraqi military officials -- some of them still hiding from American forces -- the orders exposed the core of the Iraqi military to devastating U.S. air attacks and left the capital's defenses markedly weakened.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aar; aftermathanalysis; baghdaddefense; battleforbaghdad; fallofbaghdad; hussein; iraq; iraqifreedom; iraqiofficers; micromanagement; qusai; qusaihussein; qusay; qusayhussein; republicanguard; robertcollier; turkeyshoot
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To: sarcasm
The "three stooges" rode again.


21 posted on 05/25/2003 4:20:43 AM PDT by rmvh
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To: sarcasm
these orders, which were widely believed to carry the approval of Saddam Hussein himself,

Why was Qusai giving the orders instead of Sadaam himself?

In my opinion Saddam and Uday were already dead, deep in an underground bunker.

22 posted on 05/25/2003 4:21:17 AM PDT by chainsaw
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To: SamAdams76
Sounds like the article is trying to minimize the U.S. victory

This newspaper and its staff know nothing of military and write mostly garbage. The Iraqi's felt certain of two things. First we would not risk ground troups for a long time. They looked at Kosovo and Afganistan. In neither of these did we actually committ large numbers of ground forces. We either used surrogates or only air. Saddam felt we would do so again.

The Iraqis expected days if not weeks of air attacks. They did not expect the war to start with a ground attack. We obviously destoryed their command and control facilities very early oh. That meant they were reduced to WWI type communications. They were likely using messengers to deliver orders. That takes time. Time our fast movement did not allow. They did not expect our ground forces to move as quicly as they did. They felt they had many more days before an attack on the Republican guard surrounding Baghdad. They felt certain that it would take as long as it did to clean up the population areas on the way from Kuwait to Baghdad. They never expected us to bypass each resistance area and only secure the supply route. WE only left enough troops to contain the threat of the population centers on the way to Baghdad... we did not pause to defeate them. That certainly surprised the Iraqi commanders. The speed with which we moved and the unexpected ground attack were the key to our success.

Has it occured to anyone that the widely reported Shock and Awe description was highly touted by our military to mislead Saddam and his commanders? The Shock and Awe thing was, I think, designed to make the Iraqis think we were going to do a major and prolonged air war, and only after some weeks would a ground force attack take place.

Saddam was I think certain, that this air attack would not produce victory for us and that he would have a significant amount of time to to understand and prepare for our ground attack. It was not so much that the Iraqi Military was bad, they had the men, the weapons, and ammunitiion. They just were not able to make good used of them. they fought very much like the Russians had trained them. Russian military strategy is no match for the US Army.

The significant thing about our current governement is it is lead by a very bright man. Dubya is very smart. He is one of the few presidents able to think two thoughts at a time. Evidence that he does, is shown in his propensity to mangle words. Like everyone he only has one mouth. But when his mind processes two similar but different thoughts at the same time, and he tries to express them both, the words come out mangled. One part of his brain is thinking a sentence that says misunderstood. Another thought process is thinking a sentence with the word underestimated. The word said is misunderestimated. Only super bright people make such mistakes. Since the media has no super bright people they fail to understand the significance of such misspoken words.

Super bright people tend to feel more comfortable with super bright people. When in positions of authority they hire the smartest people they can. They promote the smartest generals and staff the white house with brainy people. They even hire a press secretary like Ari, that is always two thoughts ahead of the press.

Clinton was and is not all that bright. He is nowhere in the same league with Dubya. Clinton hired people who would make him look good by comparison. Clinton wanted the media to draw the conclusion that he was smarter than those that worked for him. Clinton hired dumber people.

Dubya on the other hand hires the smartest and best people he can. Like all very bright people,Dubya knows that very smart employees tend to make the boss look very brilliant. They accomplish things others could not.

Super bright men like General Franks and Secretary Rumsfeld make very smart decisions. They also pick very smart people to work for them.

This translates into quick military victories at a very low cost.. both in money and human beings.

This confuses the heck out of the media.

23 posted on 05/25/2003 4:32:54 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: sarcasm
These Iraqi military commanders sound a lot like Gen. Wesley Clark. < /quagmire >
24 posted on 05/25/2003 4:37:31 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: Common Tator

Bush is so bright... he can't speak well. Excellent!!!!

25 posted on 05/25/2003 4:40:28 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
ping
26 posted on 05/25/2003 4:47:26 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Common Tator
...But when his mind processes two similar but different thoughts at the same time, and he tries to express them both, the words come out mangled...

I often mismangle words but have oftennever been underaccused of being nonsuper brightless.

27 posted on 05/25/2003 4:53:32 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: dozer7
"40mm surface-to-surface missiles"

Thats about 1.6 inches in diameter. I've bought bottle rockets bigger than that at Crazy Debbies Fireworks in Tulsa.

the dozer
28 posted on 05/25/2003 5:00:34 AM PDT by dozer7
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To: TomB
And now we see the genius of Robert Fisk. He obviously lulled the Iraqis into a false sense of security by writing constantly about now impregnible the Iraqi's Baghdad defenses were.

Let's not underestimate the possible genious of Peter Arnett. There he was, right in the middle of Baghdad, making the Iraqis believe that "our war plans have failed." Peter is either the stupidest man on earth or he is a CIA agent with the brilliant cover of a bumbling, clueless, liberal "journalist."

Okay, maybe I'm way out there with this Peter Arnett as "secret agent man" crap. But hey, he couldn't have done a better job for us if he was.

29 posted on 05/25/2003 5:01:29 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: Common Tator
Excellent analysis. You are right about brilliant people mangling words. Their thoughts are 8 steps ahead of their mouths.

BTW, ignore the sleeper-freeper bush-hating plant ranting above.
30 posted on 05/25/2003 5:01:54 AM PDT by MonroeDNA (Unions and Marxists say, " Workers of the world unite!")
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
News flash...the war wasn't about WMD's in Iraq, no matter how many desperate anti-Bush liberals try to tell you so. It was about Iraq's long 12-year record of violations of the 1991 cease-fire agreements and the failure of the UN Security Council to enforce them.


31 posted on 05/25/2003 5:06:06 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: Common Tator
Excellent comments and very interesting analysis of why Bush mangles his words. I never thought of it that way. I was convinced long ago that Bush was much more intelligent than his political enemies would have us believe. The quality of people that he surrounds himself with is very impressive, especially when you consider the scumbags that Clinton surrounded himself with.
32 posted on 05/25/2003 5:13:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: SamAdams76
That's right. I just check the WH site. Interestingly, and bringing memories of Orwell's '1984', all W's speeches where he was scaring the the American 'consumers' with the Saddam's immense stockpiles of WMDs had simply disappeared.

Remember: the U.S. has NEVER claimed that Iraq possesed WMDs in 2003. In fact, the main reaons for the war were, of course, Saddam's oppression of women and children and probably his failure to provide the Iraqi people with prescription drug coverage benefits.

This from the WH's site:


33 posted on 05/25/2003 5:18:34 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: MonroeDNA
Glad to see someone else recognizes A Vast Right Wing Conspirator for what he is.
34 posted on 05/25/2003 5:18:43 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Well, Stalin -- unlike these guys -- did learn militarily. They may not have gone forward to Communism, as your poster would have it, but they did go forward to victory under Stalin's leadership.
35 posted on 05/25/2003 5:19:24 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: SamAdams76
News flash...the war wasn't about WMD's in Iraq, no matter how many desperate anti-Bush liberals try to tell you so. It was about Iraq's long 12-year record of violations of the 1991 cease-fire agreements and the failure of the UN Security Council to enforce them.

Really???? This is from one of Mr. Bush' speech of Nov 11, 2002:

And we oppose a uniquely dangerous regime that possesses the weapons of mass murder, has used the weapons of mass murder, and could supply those weapons to terror groups. The dictator in Iraq has had a long history of aggression and a deep hatred of America. The United States government, and once again the United Nations Security Council, share a determination: the Iraqi regime must not produce or possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Iraq pledged to disarm more than a decade ago. It's been a decade of systematic deception, unmet obligations, unpunished violations.

Those games are now over. Saddam Hussein will fully disarm and prove that he has done so, or America will lead a coalition to disarm him.

This is an urgent task for America and the world, because the events of September the 11th clearly demonstrate that a threat that gathers on the other side of the earth can bring suffering to the American homeland. The danger from Iraq is clear and it's multiplied a thousand times over by the possibility of chemical or biological or nuclear attack. The time to confront this threat is before it arrives, not the day after.

36 posted on 05/25/2003 5:28:02 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
And we oppose a uniquely dangerous regime that possesses the weapons of mass murder, has used the weapons of mass murder, and could supply those weapons to terror groups. The dictator in Iraq has had a long history of aggression and a deep hatred of America. The United States government, and once again the United Nations Security Council, share a determination: the Iraqi regime must not produce or possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Iraq pledged to disarm more than a decade ago. It's been a decade of systematic deception, unmet obligations, unpunished violations.

Those games are now over. Saddam Hussein will fully disarm and prove that he has done so, or America will lead a coalition to disarm him.

This is an urgent task for America and the world, because the events of September the 11th clearly demonstrate that a threat that gathers on the other side of the earth can bring suffering to the American homeland. The danger from Iraq is clear and it's multiplied a thousand times over by the possibility of chemical or biological or nuclear attack. The time to confront this threat is before it arrives, not the day after.

Thank you for posting this. It's about time we had a president who will not stand for a dictatorship regime that endangers us all. President Bush will go down in history as one of our finest presidents of all time.

37 posted on 05/25/2003 5:30:49 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Excellent job posting the White House site for us and showing us how the current administration despises the child abuse and violence towards women that existed during the brutal Saddam regime. Of course, most of us here are already in the Bush camp. But thanks for passing on the good word. Maybe you converted a few of the anti-Bush people lurking out there.

38 posted on 05/25/2003 5:33:57 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: aristeides
That's right. I just located a great quote from Mr. Stalin. Some of you were probably lead to believe that it was Mr. Frumm or Mr. Bush's original phrase but... it's Stalin's. Here it is:

Those who are not for us are against us!.

You may find it at http://marx2mao.phpwebhosting.com/Stalin/PS06.html .

Troubling??? It shouldn't be.

Meanwhile, some guy on C-SPAN continues talking about those mystery 'tunnels' underneath Iraq where, he is so sure, 'mass quantitites' of WMD's are surely hidden.

39 posted on 05/25/2003 5:35:17 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: SamAdams76
Are you aware that Congo's Pygmies are being eaten by various other locals as we speak? Are you demanding that we police the world? Who's next? China maybe? Congo?
40 posted on 05/25/2003 5:37:55 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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