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To: tortoise
The symbols exist independently,

I don't share that faith.

but a mind like ours can never perceive them independently, only in a rich subjective context.

Without rich subjective context, do they have meaning?

391 posted on 05/25/2003 11:42:47 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
I don't share that faith.

Symbols are nothing more than referents to patterns. I didn't think this definition was controversial at all, and the definition implies almost nothing, being strictly a definition. This is a common rigorous definition of "symbol".

Without rich subjective context, do they have meaning?

Of course not. A pattern is a pattern is a pattern. Without the subjective context, symbolic referents to "cat" and "dog" are essentially equivalent (technical caveat: assuming the patterns have the same Kolmogorov complexity). The corollary though, is that every interpretative context of a symbol will generally be unique. The contextual framework you put the symbol "cat" in is different from mine (since we don't share minds that I know of), so the contextual perception of that symbol will be different as well. The "cat" pattern exists objectively but we never perceive it that way; we only see it through the lens of how it interacts with the massive nest of interwoven patterns in our brains.

399 posted on 05/25/2003 11:59:10 AM PDT by tortoise
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