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Germans beg for thatcher clone to run their country
daily telegraph ^ | 21/5/2003 | telegraph

Posted on 05/21/2003 2:24:23 AM PDT by may18

Thatcher, Mandy and the Germans By Harry Mount (Filed: 21/05/2003)

Berlin

'Does Margaret Thatcher have any children who might be interested in running Germany?" It took a brief run-through of the careers of Mark and Carole Thatcher to convince the 30-year-old head of a German think-tank, who had asked the question, that they might not be best placed to bring Germany out of its current recession - declared official last week.

But that didn't stop the other German delegates at the weekend's Konigswinter conference - the most influential of Anglo-German conferences, set up by Adenauer in 1950 - from declaring their desperation for a leader cast in the mould of Mark and Carole's mother.

Germany is not in as bad a shape as Britain was in 1979, but there are many of the same problems - high unemployment, unreconstructed unions, rocketing welfare costs. And there's no one there to sort it out. Gerhard Schröder is not considered up to the task. And it's still not clear who might lead the opposition Christian Democrats into the next election to clear up the mess. Oh, how they all longed for a Frau Thatcher to do it.

The adolescent crack troops of New Labour were all there - David Miliband, the education minister, Andrew Adonis, one of Tony Blair's chief advisers, and Ben Bradshaw, the Foreign Office minister - and they tried to stem the tide of obsessive love for Mrs Thatcher. "You may say Germany's suffering from bad leadership," said Mr Bradshaw, "but we're not doing so well ourselves."

Sharp intake of breath all round at the prospect of an assassination attempt on the Führer.

"We're lucky enough to have Tony Blair as leader," said Mr Bradshaw, smiling at his joke. "But the current Tory leader, and the last two, are really not much good."

Still, the Germans were unpersuaded. Still, they kept on asking for a Thatcher. To the visitor, it was a strange feeling, taking part in a beautifully run conference - buses on time to the minute, hurrying along the immaculately kept streets - that was devoted to saying what a state Germany was in.

It felt like being a deeply troubled psychiatrist, wondering what to say to the patient on the couch, who seemed in exceptionally good nick. The young Germans there - lawyers, academics, civil servants - assured me, though, that there was real concern over the future of their jobs and pensions.

Enter Peter Mandelson. As if the Germans hadn't done enough self-crucifixion over their economy, the Prince of Darkness was laid on as an after-dinner speaker to hammer the nails in.

Mr Mandelson is like an 18-year-old who has just won a scholarship to a top university. The world's oyster is apparently still wide open; collective amnesia has set in over the generous ways of Geoffrey Robinson and that awkward business with the Hindujas and the passport.

Over the course of the three days of the conference, Mr Mandelson was touted as a shoo-in for a series of knock-out jobs: a return as Ulster Secretary to clear up the Stakeknife wounds; ambassador to Berlin (the current incumbent, Sir Paul Levy, stepped down at the weekend); ambassador to Washington; oh, and President of Europe, as soon as the post is created after the European constitutional convention is wound up in a month's time.

Mr Mandelson was certainly reading from Tony Blair's notes - and he acknowledged that he was fairly familiar with the views of the Prime Minister - when he launched a broadside at the way Germany conducted its foreign policy over the war, and how disastrous it would be to stick with what he called "an arguably doomed alliance with France and Russia".

The Germans in the room politely applauded as Mr Mandelson went through Germany's faults. You shouldn't expect too much of Germany in foreign and defence matters was his line, not least because Germany didn't want too much to be expected of it. Germany has been so useless at defence matters that "the EU's security policy has amounted to little more than Britain plus France (and too often Britain minus France)".

He even went as far as to break the first Basil Fawlty rule of dealing with Germans - don't mention those awkward years in the middle of the last century. Germany, he said, is in danger of falling into "a very 'old' European approach, which up to 1945 failed our continent and failed Germany in particular".

At his own admission, Mr Mandelson acknowledged that he sounded like a parody of Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady - "Why can't a German be more like an Englishman?"

Much as he tried to deflect this accusation, that is exactly how he came across. And that is exactly what the Germans at the conference were asking, although, to be precise, they wanted to know, "Why can't a German be more like one Englishwoman in particular?"

The self-abasement was endless; that is, until it came to the question of joining the euro and accepting the conclusions of the constitutional convention. The only time that normal service was resumed, and the Germans could mock the British for being slow, stuck-in-the-mud, outdated, was when the euroglint came into their eyes.

But none of them could explain the paradox. Here you all are, I asked, saying how wonderful Britain is and how you long to emulate us, but still you want us to introduce the one great measure that, at a stroke, would bring our economic performance in line with yours.

It took Gisela Stuart, the British MP, born in Germany, who sits on the constitutional convention, to sum up how I felt at the inability of any of the Germans to answer my question.

"Schadenfreude," she said, "is a word invented by the Germans to sum up a peculiarly British feeling."


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Free Republic; Germany; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: germany; schadenfreude; thatcher
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Lefty-Comi
That's why people talk about having a "Thatcher", who reformed everything all at once, starting with the strongest special interests in the labor unions. She killed the British shipbuilding business, she killed the subsidised coal mining business, she privatised and slashed spending and she said damn the consequences. It was an anti-socialist revolution, and although she was very unpopular (she would have lost her first re-election if not for winning a war in Argentina) its clear two decades later that she saved Britain's economy. Where is the German Thatcher? I read the papers every day, and I don't see anyone talking about rejecting the german sozial-wirtschaft model - and this is where the problem is.
22 posted on 05/22/2003 3:02:22 AM PDT by babble-on
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Lefty-Comi
that was de Tocqueville, and he said it about America - and its still true! I really appreciate the insights on German political mood. Thanks
25 posted on 05/22/2003 4:57:15 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: Travis McGee
Amen

People forget we had a class of people in this country who had free shelter, free food, and free health care. It took the civil war to stop all of those social services that the left is trying to bring back.
26 posted on 05/22/2003 6:14:27 AM PDT by Orwellian
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To: hellinahandcart
Ah, they're just trying to spoil our schadenfreude ping!

Of course I do hope the Germans find their Thatcher, but I'll believe it when I see it. Productivity and labor reforms in Europe are essential, but if a future German government (or any "old-Europe" government) attempts to seriously prosecute them, look out. It ain't gonna be pretty.

27 posted on 05/22/2003 6:34:17 AM PDT by Stultis
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Orwellian
Exactly. Prison also comes to mind.
29 posted on 05/22/2003 7:25:32 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Lefty-Comi
Anyone on the modern left going back all the way to Karl Marx would have supported the slaves in rising up.

You are very confused, or poorly eduated.

Marz would have supported "freeing" the slaves only as far as freeing them from their white masters.

But Marx stood for the slavery of ALL HUMANITY.

Chains are chains, slavery is slavery. I don't care if "The State" is the master.

30 posted on 05/22/2003 7:27:58 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Lefty-Comi
It's not like Marx and the boys said "let's try to enslave all humanity".

Discussion ended. There is no point in debating an aplogist for the creator of the system which murdered one hundred million people and enslaved over a billion in a single century.

It would be no more interesting to me than discussing the better points of Adolf Hitler. "Great Autobahns!"

32 posted on 05/22/2003 8:36:22 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Lefty-Comi
I was talking about slaves. Slave owners were subject to market forces to make their income. It wasn't a classless society until women had the right to vote.
On the subject of the 1% employment I think It would lead to either the complete destruction of individual freedom and no new tech or arts or the a new age of amazing individual freedom and innovation. No freedom because with no chance of starving and no need to work for shelter people will simply sit and indulge in pleasure. Their greatest fear would be death so they would outlaw any behavior that was unapproved by the 1%. Greater freedom because free of the need to work for food or shelter people could spend their time working on new innovations and the persuit of personal improvment. I'm inclined to think the first is more likely. With no pressure to improve people will simply atrophy. Cultures that are free from outside competition continue at the same level of development. I don't think a free market can survive without innovation. The 1% would continue to improve untill they no longer had to work and then nothing. The death of free market, initiative, and improvement.
33 posted on 05/22/2003 8:36:50 AM PDT by Orwellian
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: may18
Germany is not in as bad a shape as Britain was in 1979, but there are many of the same problems - high unemployment, unreconstructed unions, rocketing welfare costs

No, no, no! It's a socialist paradise that America would do well to emulate, both in enviroweenie politics and social welfare spending. Don't these people read the American papers???

35 posted on 05/22/2003 3:02:06 PM PDT by Lizavetta
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To: McGavin999
What happens when they discover that, like Sweden, everyone has the same quality of life, but it's a lower quality of life

My mother (a Dane) tells me that Sweden has one of the highest suicide rates in the world....I guess when your life is micromanaged by a nanny state, most of your money is confiscated, and there's little hope of any change, life can get pretty depressing.

36 posted on 05/22/2003 3:05:12 PM PDT by Lizavetta
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To: Lefty-Comi
funny how the definitions got switched around

In the post-industrial age we supposedly have entered, definitions will be painted on fan blades. Conservative on one blade, social liberal on another, neo-marxist on another, and perfectionist plutocracy on the last. Then we will turn the machine on and let it do the work of reversing definitions for us. If we aren't seeing enough evolutionary progress, we will turn the fan from lo to medium, or even to high.

37 posted on 05/22/2003 3:16:13 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: may18
Does Margaret Thatcher have any children who might be interested in running Canada?
38 posted on 05/22/2003 5:40:33 PM PDT by rickmichaels
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To: Lefty-Comi
What would a free market capitalist suggest for a oil rich (or in the future techonology rich) country? The socialist would say well we'd just give everyone his share of the big pie.

I'd say you educate your people how to sustain themselves by starting businesses that would employ other people. I say you take that money and make small business loans to people. I say you invest in research hospitals and make sure that educational institutions provide the type of education for your own people to produce the doctors and scientists who can do that research. People are happiest when they are free to be productive.

If you make and give away "free stuff" you have established the value of that "stuff" as zero. However, if you want something, and work and save for it, when you finally get it it's worth far more than the price you paid for it.

I would not be happy living in your socialist paradise, but if you would, that's your choice and I'm happy that you've found a lifestyle you enjoy. As for me, I love working for what I want. I love the feeling you get at the end of a productive day. I don't need free healthcare because I have looked after myself and have saved for a day when something unexpected happens. I've never claimed unemployment in my life because, although I have been unemployed from time to time, I saved for that as well. The idea of being on the "dole" is abhorrant to me because I would recognize it as money taken from people like me who had to do without to provide that money. Unemployment should be a safetynet for those who have been unable to find work for reasons beyond their control.

I love the idea that God put me on this earth and expected me to make my way, and I am. I am generous in my contributions to charity because I think the best helping hand is the one extended with love and not merely a government check.

I am an American.

39 posted on 05/22/2003 5:55:59 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: rickmichaels
lol if we get another maggie we are keeing her sorry!!
40 posted on 05/22/2003 5:56:31 PM PDT by may18
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