I merely explained to you the reason why Serbian troops wouldn't be allowed back into Kosovo, whereupon you countered with your Harlem example, which is specious, given the difference between the motivation and methods of the two forces involved.
So I dunno - what does that say about me?
You may consider the reason the Serbs won't be back in Kosovo any time soon no more than a confusion of hot air, but government by the consent of the governed will be enforced in this case, given the previous government's criminal treatment of it's subject citizens.
Moving on, let's consider the following two statements:
Actually, a big part of the reason why things went so bad in Bosnia and Croatia is that we acted to inflame their ethnic rivalries by prematurely and irresponsibly recognizing their independence.
I believe I said that recognition - both by us and by Western European governments - made matters considerably worse than they otherwise would have been. It certainly didn't help any.
Given your vast knowledge of the subject, you must know the relevant dates of both Croatian and Bosnian recognition, and the approximate starting point of the ethnic slaughter in both countries.
In short, you are either attempting to rewriting history or demonstrate an egregious ignorance of the subject matter - both Vukovar and the cleansing of non-Serb villages in Bosnia predate the recognition of those countries by months. So just how did our and the European's recognition exacerbate the situation? Other than definitively scuttling the Serb attempt to create Greater Serbia and giving a generation of web based disinformation artists grist for their mills, the effects of recognition shall have to be demonstrated to have worsened the situation.
Are you up to it? I doubt it, but what the hell, you may surprise me yet.
you'd do well
What I'd do well to do, Inquest, is to more fully recognize the limitations of those I am conversing with. If you cannot figure out how our actions in Croatia and Bosnia, where we paid mere lip service to our values and ideals, relate to our actions in Macedonia, where we intervened to stop ethnic violence from tearing the country apart, then who am I to attempt to elucidate the matter to you more than once?
Was the kind of fearmongering you describe going on anywhere but on the Albanian side?
Have you seen examples of fearmongering on the Albanian side? I'm curious - please provide examples that match what was being presented on RealityMacedonia.org
Look up Ljuboten and Boskovski - I'll expect to hear your recycling of someone else's rationalization forthwith.
Yup, hot air all around. Your prating on about "government by consent of the governed" fully justifies my Harlem example. If "government by consent of the governed" means one thing in Kosovo, it means the exact same thing everywhere else. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, you're basically arguing for an unlimited right to secession all throughout the world, even in cases where there's a normal, democratically run parent government.
So just how did our and the European's recognition exacerbate the situation? Other than definitively scuttling the Serb attempt to create Greater Serbia and giving a generation of web based disinformation artists grist for their mills, the effects of recognition shall have to be demonstrated to have worsened the situation.
Interesting. It "definitively scuttled" their attempts, huh? Well gee, you'd think the war would have just ended at that point, seeing as how the Serbs would have just known the game was up. Oh wait, I was the one rewriting history...
In any case, we granted recognition to Bosnia and Croatia in April 1992. And the EU recognized Croatia in December '91 (which no doubt encouraged Bosnia to go that route 3 months later). I'll let you be the judge of how bad things were before & after that point. Here, have a memory refresher.
I'm curious - please provide examples that match what was being presented on RealityMacedonia.org
You call that fearmongering? If there were any exaggerations in that story (which I doubt), they were designed to play to an American audience, not a Macedonian one. The latter already knew how disreputable the KLA/NLA/ANA were, even without Osama. Fearmongering, to me, means demonizing an ethnic group (for example, your hot air about Serbia up at the top of the post), not calling to account those who've appointed themselves to act on their behalf. If someone tried to make the case that Louis Farrakhan was aligned with al-Qaeda (which is not too fanciful, given his warm relationship with Middle Eastern despots), would you consider it "fearmongering" against blacks?
Look up Ljuboten and Boskovski - I'll expect to hear your recycling of someone else's rationalization forthwith.
Well, let's see: 1. We have the OSCE refusing to corroborate HRW's account. HRW chalks this up to "intimidation" by the Macedonian government, which of course is ridiculous; the worst that could happen to them is that they'd just be kicked out of the country, which would only make Skopje look bad, not the OSCE. (And even at that, have they kicked the brave, intrepid HRW out of the country? Didn't think so.)
2. We have a whole bunch of sensational interviews with Ljuboten locals (in Skopje!) who claimed to have been severly beaten, but no mention by HRW of wounds on the bodies of these interviewees. Just an oversight, I'm sure. (Couldn't have been fearmongering or anything)
3. We have a guerrilla army in Macedonia that shamelessly hides among civilian populations, so in such a situation, things aren't always going to look neat and clean. If the Macedonian army is going to go into a place looking for terrorists, are the locals going to welcome them in with open arms and turn over the people they're looking for, or are they going to riot and provoke retaliatory measures? HRW doesn't appear to ask themselves these questions, which of course would leave the reader with the impression that Boskoski and his colleagues are just a bunch of lying Slavs. Oh, and the fact that HRW calls them "ultranationalists" doesn't contribute much to their objectivity either.
Let's see, Croatia was recognized in 92, and Gospic was in 91.