Matrix Reloaded. Has Anybody seen it?

none | 5/16/03 | none

[The South Texan]

Just curious if anybody has seen this flick yet? The first one was great, but I have been disapointed with squels before.

[pabianice]

Rent "Flight of the Phoenix" and "The Sand Pebbles" instead.
THAT's movie-making.

[Festa]

I too think there is a second higher matrix for those who are dissatisfied with the original matrix. I think most of your points are good and valid, but I part paths with you with regards to determinism.

Whether Neo realizes it or not, when he chooses the door to go back and save Trinity, he is making a claim to the fact that even in a determined universe humans still have the freedom to choose.

If the W brothers are going to waste time with 19th century Newtonian determinism they are not nearly as well versed in philosophy as I had previousely thought. However, I do not believe they believe this.

I too believe the architect may have been lying, but if he lied about one thing, then why are we to believe he is telling the truth about anything else? We can't pick and choose his lies. If he is going to trick Neo, he

1) Has to make him feel not special
2) Has to make it look like a fatalistic choice
3) Has to demoralize him when it looks like Neo is going to make the choice that the architect does not want him to.

Also, after seeing the movie a second time, I am still not convinced the oracle is evil (the architect is a liar, I think we could agree).
During the conversation with Neo the second time I saw it, I picked up on a few lines that I didnt notice before

The oracle admits that Neo has to trust her.

The oracle asks Neo if he saw Trinity dying. Neo promptly says no and the oracle looks a bit shocked.

Then the oracle says that the choice has already been made whether or not Neo is going to let Trinity die. He only needs to understand why.

Finally, at the end, The oracle notes that she is now a believer that he is the one, whereas previousely she was not.

In the last movie, the oracle said he was not the one, noting implicitly that Neo did not lead the "examined life" (know thyself).

The oracle, I think, realizes that Neo is now examining his life and trying to understand the why. The previous 5 one's dd not do such a thing and thus became a tool for the architect.

Hence, Neo has the capability of coming to the true reality that the other 5 "pawns" were not capable of doing previousely.

The W brothers are deeper than simple newtonian determinism.

[Skywalk]

Yeah Matrix borrows HEAVILY from other films and stories. The robotic Sentinels are a direct rip(though not in appearance) of the mutant-hunting Sentinels from the X-Men comics.

[Skywalk]

The W Brothers think the world of Cornel West, that should tell you all you need to know.

[Festa]

it could be a defect in their coding program ;)

[Sentis]

In reply at this point

I'm not even sure Neo is not a specialized computer program. I still think the main computer is relying on the fact Neo believes Zion is the real world. Thus neither decision that Neo can make is correct based on his erroneous assumption and that regardless of the choice the matrix will survive. The fact that the Main computer told Neo that the computers would accept a different level of existence is a lie. In fact I'm not certain at this point that the Matrix is anything like what we have been told in the two movies. For instance if we all agree that Zion is a second matrix then the Real world may not be anything like what the Main computer creates in Zion.

Here is a second theory I have.

Neo is a sixth generation computer program NEO6.1 The matrix itself is a computer environment created to simulate the human world for it's one true occupant the NEO program. Why? Human programmers seeking to create the ultimate hacking tool sometime in the future, programmers seeking to create the first truly independent and sentient program, there are a hundred reasons thus you have, NEO.

[Bogey78O]

Cornell West did indeed speak. He aksed one question but he spoke nonetheless.

[A. Patriot]

I saw it last night. Incredible special effects. However, it has been a long time since I saw the original. I wish I had rented the first one and watched it again before I saw this one. The story line might have made more sense.

[TJFLSTRAT]

Serveral friends have informed me of this scene, I have decided to boycott the garbage comming out of Hollywood. It is tiresome how Hollywood pollutes our culture with violence, then goes-a-crying to the death house door at the prison, and cries for the condemned.

[ArcLight]

Having only mildly enjoyed the first one, I was expecting little this time around. Instead, I was floored. And I don't just mean the effects. I loved the talky, philosophical bits. I didn't understand half of what they were saying, but the parts I got were fascinating. About 5 times better than the first one, and about 10 times better than I'd expected. I just became a Matrix fan.

[Festa]

That is an interesting theory but the architect admits that even though Neo was changed when meeting him, he remains human.

I think the central theme of this movie centers around love. There seems to be a discord though between the first and the second movie

In the first movie, the W brothers seem to be trying to argue that there will always be something fundamentally different between man and machine. Humans have the ability to transcend themselves whereas machines do not. That is why everytime we see agents, they always seem to be completely their own sentences

However, in the second movie, we are led to believe that even though humans can transcend themselves, the machines still have the ability to recognize it (the architect cant understand it so he calls it a "lower" thought). But nonetheless, the machines have manipulated human transcendence and are still able to control humanity (hence the higher matrix)

However, and I think the W brothers were being very clear about this, is that when Neo chose door number 2 (to go back) he was whether he liked it or not choosing that even in a deterministic world humanity still has freedom of choice.

Also note that the architect is lying when he says that Neo will never be able to save trinity. Neo does. It will be interesting to see how the W brothers will play out this free will vs. determinism debate. I hope they choose the former.

[HighRoadToChina]

"Reloaded has every bit as much of the religious symbolism that the first one had. I identified Buddism, Judeo-Christian, Nordic-Germanic Asatruar, ect... The Brothers seem to be trying to fit at least five different complete mythologies and hero fables together as one."

Try hedonism. Reloaded is Hollywood's version of God and a pretty damned protrayal of "humans".

[Joy Angela]

I also saw the images of Hitler and Bush Sr. in that scene.

But, this symbolized the coming
battle between their offspring! It was not subliminal negativity towards GW Bush at all!

Some call Hillary Clinton "Hitlery"...for perhaps both her political fanatism and her uncanny facial resemblence to Adolf Hitler. (The infamous Hitler's daughter?...now that's a story!)

On the other side of the battle would be the son of Bush Sr... Our President.


Fantastic Film.

Good vs Evil

Reality vs Illusion

Hot stuff.

[Fraulein]

Thank you for the link. It made for a very enjoyable and interesting read.

[Porterville]

I finished the video game last night (I know, but I'm finished with a contract and have lots of free time to...well, do nothing) anyway it goes into a lot of details about the movie, including the French dude, Niobi, Ghost, Bane, the Oracle, and what happened to Neo; It actually has all the actors in live clips, that were in the movie. It focuses on the perspective of Niobi (Jada Pinkett Smith) before, during, and after, Neo's adventure. It is like a whole other movie....also check out the Animatrix..it too is a background of the Matrix...I'm lovin' this junk.

[Porterville]

The dance scene was to give the audience a scope, or idea of the size of Zion, the demographics, and what the people centered their belief systems upon...the movie did this in 5-10 minutes...at which point, Zion became a tangible entity in which we were all emotionaly invested. Very good management, I think.

[Bogey78O]

Ok...I seen everything else but this. Give me the scoop. I think I have the situation down pat. What's the deal with Neo controlling the Sentinels?

[Porterville]

The Oracle in the video game, talks to Niobi, (the Oracle changed her physical form becuase of the French dude promised revenge). She said to Niobi that Neo was stuck between the Matrix and the "Real-World" or between the two worlds..It is a very cool game, I might play through it again to see what I missed.

[Bogey78O]

Are we talking trapped between Zion and the Matrix or is Zion part of the matrix and he's trapped between Zion and the real world?

[xusafflyer]

Movie sucked. The music was just horrible.