Posted on 04/29/2003 12:25:26 PM PDT by SanFranRepublican
The long tradition of saying grace before meals at the state-supported Virginia Military Institute is unconstitutional, even though the prayers are voluntary, a federal appeals court panel ruled on Monday. "In establishing its supper prayer, VMI has done precisely what the First Amendment forbids," the three-judge panel said in its ruling, which upheld a lower-court decision. "Put simply, VMI's supper prayer exacts an unconstitutional toll on the consciences of religious objectors," wrote Judge Robert B. King. The federal appeals court panel said the nondenominational prayer, said before supper, is not really voluntary, given the strict obedience demanded of VMI cadets. Monday's ruling may not be the final word. Virginia Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore said he will ask the full appeals court to rule in the case. Wire reports quoted Kilgore as calling prayer "part of the fabric of our country."
(Excerpt) Read more at story.news.yahoo.com ...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech...
last time i checked, a "law" means that something will be enforced by the legal authorities of the land; that if disobeyed, there are real consequences, i.e. a fine or imprisonment (or in some lands, severe corporal punishment).
"exacting an unconstitutional toll on the consciences of religious objectors" doesn't sound like any of the above. afterall, what is conscience? and is it the same for all? is it tangible? if not, are we moving towards new laws addressing the metaphysical?
there are no reports of VMI (Founded in 1839) punishing any cadets for staying silent though prayer. fact: it is voluntary. without evidence of enforcement (or any consequences) administered by the college, i don't see how there's a real case to be made.
freedom of speech means hearing things that you may not agree with. (we've seen this in action recently, with protesters taking to the streets) in America, we all have the "right" to our opinions. and others have the right to dislike us for them. but nowhere is prayer compelled by Congressional law. following a tradition is not legal compliance. it's choice. and isn't that what the 1st Amendment clearly stipulates?
i pray the ACLU and their liberal sympathizers their souls to keep....
Since when did Congress start establishing rules at VMI? At the time the Constitution was ratified, several state legislatures had established religions. Seems to me if anything the court is interfering with the Constitution by "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion at VMI.
So sad.
MM
every one of those cadets can pray before dinner - there is nothing to be done about it.
I know they are praying on the rat line. They just can't let any of the senior cadets notice. I'm serious, when they stopeed being subsidized by private contributions and tuition, they opened Pandora's box. The alumni and administration knew of the fallout. Another one bites the dust!
You are correct .. these are just words, now I realize that not everyone can be foreced to say them, BUT at the same time not every one can be forced not to say them.
It goes against every thing that the freedom of speech is all about
The same freedom Christians had under Bolshevik rule.
My thoughts exactly, you beat me to the post.
The scariest words in English: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
Ronald Reagan
And what do you know about the Rat Line?
The Virginia Military Institute has never been a private institution, it was founded 11 November 1839 at the Virginia State Arsenal in Lexington as a State Military College, a local West Point. West Point (a public institution), from when the first superintendent graduated, and L'Ecole Polytechnique (a French public institution), whence one of the founders, Claudius Crozet graduated were the models for VMI, a combination of military and scientific training, primarily as engineers.
VMI has evolved over the years, and the admission of women, which I opposed, was one of the most profound changes. It wasn't an easy decision, as I know from my Brother Rats who were on the Board of Visitors at the time.
The reasons VMI didn't go private are simple:
1) the money just wasn't there, even with all the "got bucks" alumni agreeing to reach in real deep; and
2) going private would mean VMI graduates would not be commissioned, as ROTC would have been withdrawn.
VMI'70
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