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Federal Court Nixes VMI Dinner Prayer
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030429/ap_on_go_su_co/vmi_prayer_2 ^
| April 29, 2003
| Associated Press
Posted on 04/29/2003 12:25:26 PM PDT by SanFranRepublican
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Constitution of the U.S. | Amendment I (Ratified Dec. 15, 1791)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech...
last time i checked, a "law" means that something will be enforced by the legal authorities of the land; that if disobeyed, there are real consequences, i.e. a fine or imprisonment (or in some lands, severe corporal punishment).
"exacting an unconstitutional toll on the consciences of religious objectors" doesn't sound like any of the above. afterall, what is conscience? and is it the same for all? is it tangible? if not, are we moving towards new laws addressing the metaphysical?
there are no reports of VMI (Founded in 1839) punishing any cadets for staying silent though prayer. fact: it is voluntary. without evidence of enforcement (or any consequences) administered by the college, i don't see how there's a real case to be made.
freedom of speech means hearing things that you may not agree with. (we've seen this in action recently, with protesters taking to the streets) in America, we all have the "right" to our opinions. and others have the right to dislike us for them. but nowhere is prayer compelled by Congressional law. following a tradition is not legal compliance. it's choice. and isn't that what the 1st Amendment clearly stipulates?
i pray the ACLU and their liberal sympathizers their souls to keep....
To: SanFranRepublican
How can the courts stop people from praying? The answer is, they CAN'T. THEY CANNOT STOP US FROM PRAYING. If they throw us in jail for praying, then so be it. Force the issue in court.
2
posted on
04/29/2003 12:27:17 PM PDT
by
dandelion
To: SanFranRepublican
Congress shall make no law... Since when did Congress start establishing rules at VMI? At the time the Constitution was ratified, several state legislatures had established religions. Seems to me if anything the court is interfering with the Constitution by "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion at VMI.
To: SanFranRepublican
That school never had a problem until the courts forced it to admit women. Now it's ruined.
To: SanFranRepublican
General Jackson would be most displeased.
To: SanFranRepublican
And in comes the latest demand for God to get out of this country. Let another 9/11 happen, though, and once more everyone one will be screaming, "Where's God?" Well DOH. Right where you asked Him to be: Not meddling in the affairs of the USA.
So sad.
MM
To: dandelion
this has nothing to do with stopping people from praying. it is about forcing people to pray.
every one of those cadets can pray before dinner - there is nothing to be done about it.
7
posted on
04/29/2003 12:37:25 PM PDT
by
lugsoul
To: Bikers4Bush
They forced them to accept wimmen because VMI is partially sudsidized by gubmint money. When you takes da gubmint's money you gots to play by gubmint rules. Dat means 'zactly that you can't have a boys club and you can't be doin' all dat prayin'.
8
posted on
04/29/2003 12:38:40 PM PDT
by
Movemout
To: lugsoul
KILGORE FOR GOVERNOR
9
posted on
04/29/2003 12:40:53 PM PDT
by
JohnnyZ
(I crack me up!)
To: lugsoul
"every one of those cadets can pray before dinner - there is nothing to be done about it. "I know they are praying on the rat line. They just can't let any of the senior cadets notice. I'm serious, when they stopeed being subsidized by private contributions and tuition, they opened Pandora's box. The alumni and administration knew of the fallout. Another one bites the dust!
10
posted on
04/29/2003 12:43:59 PM PDT
by
Movemout
To: dandelion
How can the courts stop people from praying? The answer is, they CAN'T. THEY CANNOT STOP US FROM PRAYING. If they throw us in jail for praying, then so be it. Force the issue in court. You are correct .. these are just words, now I realize that not everyone can be foreced to say them, BUT at the same time not every one can be forced not to say them.
It goes against every thing that the freedom of speech is all about
11
posted on
04/29/2003 12:46:51 PM PDT
by
Mo1
(I'm a monthly Donor .. You can be one too!)
To: Mo1
Screw the court. Do it anyway.
12
posted on
04/29/2003 12:49:42 PM PDT
by
onedoug
To: lugsoul
every one of those cadets can pray [silently] before dinner - there is nothing to be done about it.The same freedom Christians had under Bolshevik rule.
To: Constitution Day
14
posted on
04/29/2003 12:56:42 PM PDT
by
jgrubbs
To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
Last time I checked, VMI was a PRIVATE college. What I don't understand is why VMI still takes money form the feds. If they would wean themselves, they could tell the feds to stick it up their collective @$$e$.
15
posted on
04/29/2003 12:57:58 PM PDT
by
Blood of Tyrants
(Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
To: Blood of Tyrants
Then you need to check again.
VMI has always been a State supported institution since it was founded by the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1839.
dvwjr
VMI
1979
16
posted on
04/29/2003 1:03:33 PM PDT
by
dvwjr
To: Blood of Tyrants
What I don't understand is why VMI still takes money form the feds.
The scariest words in English: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
Ronald Reagan
To: Blood of Tyrants
VMI is not a private college. It is a state institution of the Commonwelth of Virginia. It is by far the best deal in higher education in the US. I don't know what the tuition is today but in 1996 when my son went there the instate tuition was something around $7000. That included clothing, room and board.
18
posted on
04/29/2003 1:04:29 PM PDT
by
Flint
To: Flint
Ooops. I guess that I always thought that it was a private college.
19
posted on
04/29/2003 1:12:33 PM PDT
by
Blood of Tyrants
(Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
To: Movemout
I know they are praying on the rat line. They just can't let any of the senior cadets notice. I'm serious, when they stopeed being subsidized by private contributions and tuition, they opened Pandora's box. The alumni and administration knew of the fallout.And what do you know about the Rat Line?
The Virginia Military Institute has never been a private institution, it was founded 11 November 1839 at the Virginia State Arsenal in Lexington as a State Military College, a local West Point. West Point (a public institution), from when the first superintendent graduated, and L'Ecole Polytechnique (a French public institution), whence one of the founders, Claudius Crozet graduated were the models for VMI, a combination of military and scientific training, primarily as engineers.
VMI has evolved over the years, and the admission of women, which I opposed, was one of the most profound changes. It wasn't an easy decision, as I know from my Brother Rats who were on the Board of Visitors at the time.
The reasons VMI didn't go private are simple:
1) the money just wasn't there, even with all the "got bucks" alumni agreeing to reach in real deep; and
2) going private would mean VMI graduates would not be commissioned, as ROTC would have been withdrawn.
VMI'70
20
posted on
04/29/2003 1:23:34 PM PDT
by
CatoRenasci
(Mesopotamia Delenda Est)
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