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To: George W. Bush; All
The problem is we have not spoken because we thought that such an injustice on our nation could not be allowed by the 'civilized' West. When Armenians were throwing around allegations and Allied forces spies were spreading disinformation and wartime propaganda to justify their imperialistic plots on the Ottoman Empire in the view of their public, we did not speak out. Even when we did try to enlighten the world with the truth, our voices were just not heard. All sources that point to the existence of a systematic genocide being applied upon the Armenians wuth which we have spent hundreds of years in peace, are either Armenian revolutionary comittees (formed in Russia with National Socialist ideological background), priests of the Partriarchy which had been an accomplice of these terrorist organizations and foreign missionaries or diplomats which were obviously controlled by Allied powers.

All neutral accounts of the events of that period in eastern anatolia point out that there was no such crime commited, that the number of deaths is grossly exaggerated (the number of dead being estimated at numbers above the total Armenian population of the region), that the hundreds of thousands of Turks killed in the region are completely neglected inspite of evidence such as mass graves uncovered all around Eastern Anatolia and documents in the Ottoman archives, the massive Armenian revolts in which tens of thousands of Turks were slaughtered which severely hampered the Ottoman war effort against Russia and the activities of Armenian revolutionary committees are completely overlooked as though they never existed inspite of countless documents proving otherwise.

It is obvious from the source you have posted that you have actually not read any of my posts and, as any concientious human being would be, are disturbed by attempts at holocaust deniel in any form. However, as a civilized member of the human race, you must also be open to information from all sides of a historical event before you come to a conclusion and block out any other possible interpretation of that event. Just because someone says that there was a holocaust, does not mean that it had to be accepted to be true and never questioned. It is true that the people of Anatolia have suffered greatly during those days, but to neglect the suffering of the Turks in the region is disrespect to the memory of the countless innocent Turks that were killed by pawns of Russian, French and British imperialism as well as the countless innocent Armenians that died during the forced deportation.

I am astounded by your choise of a neutral source for this topic: KNIGHTS OF VARTAN ARMENIAN RESEARCH CENTER. Its name is enough to discredit it but I will nontheless try to refute some of the information pointed out in the propaganda you have posted.

Only one Turkish government, that of Damad Ferit Pasha, has ever recognized the Armenian genocide. In fact, that Turkish government held war crimes trials and condemned to death the major leaders responsible.

--- The government of Damat Ferit Pasha was under full control of the invading Allied powers. This is the same goevernment that provoked religous groups to suppress the resistence in Anatolia against the invasion and put a death warrant on Mustafa KEmal's head. The allied powers themselves held trials on the island of Malta after 1918 and were unable to indict one single Ottoman official with any crimes against humanity. The Allied prosecutors were unable to find any evidence against the Ottoman officials eventhough they had complete control over the Ottoman government, had invaded its capital and most of its lands and had unlimited access to all its documents.

Besides, the so-called documents implicationg Talat Pasa of a genocidal plot were completely forged and here's proof. KNIGHTS OF VARTAN ARMENIAN RESEARCH CENTER

Is this the place you have accepted as a 'neutral' source on these matters? Here is some info on this neutral source : Armenian Research Center

The Armenian Genocide was carried out by the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1916 (with subsidiaries to 1922-23). One and a half million Armenians were killed, out of a total of two and a half million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.

Most Armenians in America are children or grandchildren of the survivors, although there are still many survivors amongst us.

Armenians all over the world commemorate this great tragedy on April 24, because it was on that day in 1915 when 300 Armenian leaders, writers, thinkers and professionals in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were rounded up, deported and killed. Also on that day in Constantinople, 5,000 of the poorest Armenians were butchered in the streets and in their homes.

---APRIL 24, 1915

The Ottoman government, against numerous rebellions that began after 1890 and promptly following Armenian massacres which resulted in the murder of tens of thousands of Turks, contented with informing most important persons of Armenian congregation and Armenian deputies that "Government will take the necessary precautions if Armenians continue to stab in the back and assassinate the Turks". However, it became a necessity to secure behind the borders because the army was in war at various fronts, the events did not stop but increased and assaults towards defenseless Turkish women and children increased.

With this aim, on April 24, 1915 the Armenian Committees were closed and 2345 of their directors were arrested due to the crime of carrying out activities against the government. April 24, which is commemorated annually as the "Anniversary of Armenian Massacre" by the Armenians abroad is this date when the 2345 revolutionary committee members were arrested and it has no relation with deportation.

However, the Armenian revolutionary committee members who propagandize even the unfounded events by exaggeration, promptly made a move to propagandize these mentioned arrests. As a matter of fact, Ecmiyazin Catholicos Kevork sent the telegraph below to the President of USA:

"Dear President, according to the last news we got from Turkish Armenia, the massacre began there and an organized terror endangered the presence of the Armenian people. At this critical moment, I am addressing to the noble feelings of your Excellency and great American Nation and in the name of humanity and Christianity belief requesting you to promptly interfere by means of your great Republic's diplomatic representatives and protect my people in Turkey who are left to violence of the Turkish fanaticism.

Kevork, Archbishop and Catholicos of all Armenians."

Pursuant to the telegraph of Archbishop Kevork, Russia's Washington Ambassador got in contact with USA and thus, April 24, which is the day when Armenian committee members dealing with illegal works were arrested was propagandized to world's public opinion as "the day on which Turks massacred Armenians".

REFERENCE: Gürün, Kamuran, Ermeni Dosyasi, TTK Basimevi, Ankara, 1983, s.210-211

German consuls stationed in Turkey, including Vice Consul Max Erwin von Scheubner-Richner of Erzerum [Erzurum] who was Adolf Hitler's chief political advisor in the 1920s, were eyewitnesses. Hitler said to his generals on the eve of sending his Death's Heads units into Poland, "Go, kill without mercy . . . who today remembers the annihilation of the Armenians." The statement above is false as said here: Hitler and the Armenian Question

Hitler is often quoted as having referred to the Armenians in the manner cited above while delivering a secret talk to members of his General Staff, just a week prior to his attack on Poland. I have added to the end of this booklet the original texts of the two Hitler speeches, delivered on August 22, 1939 (Annex 3). They are photocopies of the pages of the official texts, published in the certainly reliable Nuremberg documents. (7) Curiously enough, there is no reference in them to the Armenians. One may rightly assume that Hitler spoke to his generals on that day in German, which is his and their native tongue. The Nuremberg documents are the most authoritative, perhaps the only authentic sources. I am aware of a few English translations, (8) some of which carry an additional sentence that does not occur in the authorized German texts. One wonders whether who might have added it and for what purpose! In terms of "methodology", the use of a supposedly Hitler statement on the Armenians brings to mind several Nazi "craft", such as the Reichstag fire, exploited for a certain political end.

Henry Morgenthau Sr., the neutral American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, sent a cable to the U.S. State Department in 1915:

"Deportation of and excesses against peaceful Armenians is increasing and from harrowing reports of eye witnesses [sic] it appears that a campaign of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal against rebellion."

The Story Behind Robert Morgenthau's Story

Morgenthau's successor as Ambassador to Turkey, Abram Elkus, cabled the U.S. State Department in 1916 that the Young Turks were continuing an ". . . unchecked policy of extermination through starvation, exhaustion, and brutality of treatment hardly surpassed even in Turkish history."

What a bigot:

25 Lectures on Modern Balkan History

Ottoman History

Does the fact that a number of nations that have incited the unrest in Anatolia and provoked the Armenians into revolt have accepted this imaginary genocide and condemened Turkey, which is the real victim in these events, to clear their conciences?

Israel and the US presidency have never accepted the events of WWI as a genocide. Nobody is denying that attrocities have been commited , but by both sides, anyway.

The Armenian genocide is similar to the Jewish holocaust in many respects. Both people adhere to an ancient religion. Both were religious minorities of their respective states. Both have a history of persecution. Both have new democracies. Both are surrounded by enemies. Both are talented and creative minorities who have been persecuted out of envy and obscurantism. To compare the Jewish holocaust with what happened in Anatolia during WWI is an insult to the millions who have suffered at the hands of Hitler and his evil nazi empire. There are ship loads of documents and statements by German officials as well as concentration camps and well kept records of extermination to prove the Jewish holocaust. To say that Armenians, the Millet-i Sadika (Loyal Nation), were a persecuted minority in the Ottoman Empire is a display of ill intention or at best complete ignorance of historical facts. I am disgusted by the attempt of these Armenian terrorist organizations to exploit the feelings of Jews which they greatly despise (Orthodox Christians are generally brought up as enti-semitists)`and have actively taken part in the extermination of during WWII in complicity with the nazis.

If you are truly a civilized rational human being, I request that you read some of the following sources as well, to broaden your understanding of the Armenian-Turkish conflict.

 

73 posted on 04/26/2003 2:31:25 PM PDT by Turk2 (Dulce bellum inexpertis)
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To: Turk2; George W. Bush
The argument comes down to this:

Turks bad. Armenians and everyone else good. All Turkish sources diabolical propaganda. All Armenian and other sources absolute gospel truth.

74 posted on 04/26/2003 4:04:42 PM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (More Power to the Troops! More Bang for the Buck!)
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To: Turk2
The truth remains: the Turkish court which condemned the officials responsible for the Armenian genocide was as legitimate as was the Nuremburg triumvirates. Both were imposed by conquering powers. And their findings are still accepted by all parties except, not surprisingly, the Turks. As far as the Allied tribunal, it is quite likely that the elapsed time allowed the Ottoman to conceal the evidence and liquidate or intimidate the witnesses who would naturally fear for their lives after the Allies left again. After all, the feeble and dying Otttoman empire was propped up for, what, 150 years by the European powers?

It is astonishing to see someone condemn a Most Loyal nation like Armenia which was, in face, a captive nation of the Ottoman empire. Their leaders' determined demonstration of nationalism and a separate national identity led directly to the massacres of the Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman empire. It appears that the Armenian nation was Most Loyal but its leaders were not, at least in your fanciful tale.

I notice that you like to refer to Armenians who champion the cause of their dead forebears as "terrorists". Very similar to how a_Turk terms the Kurd as "terrorists" if they are in opposition to Turkey. Like you seem to depict the ordinary Armenians of the period, he speaks of the joyful happy loyal Kurds in Turkey and the "terrorist" Kurds in Iraq/Syria/Iran. Of course, the ones in Iraq do live on some of the best unexploited oil deposits in the world...

How is it, then, that Turkey has so constantly been surrounded by communists and terrorists and other bad guys and yet managed to survive and, all the while, have the most feared military in the region?

At any rate, most of this history hardly matters, especially if one is engaging in the futility of arguing with a holocaust denier.

The now-exposed diplomatic plots by Turkey and Iran to partition northern Iraq and seize its oil is now fully exposed to the world's view. Thanks to us, Turkey won't have to dirty its hands by repeating the Armenian procedure in northern Iraq.

The universal condemnation of Turkey's atrocities against the Armenians still stands. As does the near-universal condemnation of Turkey's invasion of Cyprus. And we are no longer willing to take your side on that one, not after the Stupid Party in Ankara stabbed us in the back. We'll see how you fare with Greece and the EU and see if you think it's all been worth it. Oh, yeah, and forget that sweet pipeline deal and the discounted oil too if Turkey doesn't shape up.
75 posted on 04/26/2003 4:20:32 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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