In The Valleys Of Patagonia, The Talk Is Of An Astonishing Revival Of The Welsh Language

Independent (UK) ^ | 4-19-2003 | Marcus Tanner

[Myrddin]

O ble rydychi yn dod?

[Ciexyz]

The young Welsh actor Ioan Gruffudd (A&E's Horatio Hornblower, PBS's Forsyth Saga) grew up speaking both Welsh and English, since his parents are both teachers of the Welsh language. Ioan was in a Welsh-speaking daytime drama for many years. Now he's gaining fame both as an actor and spokesman for Welsh culture.

[Myrddin]

I enjoy watching BBC4 when visiting Wales. I can catch the news from native speakers. For a written web page form, see link

[Myrddin]

Speaking of Ioan Gruffudd, see this web page. Ioan apparently plays a part on a popular sitcom call Pobol y Cwm.

[Ciexyz]

Bump for those links. I have to admit, it's fascinating to see the Welsh language in writing. And to hear it spoken, it's such a lovely and lyrical language.

Speaking of things Welsh, let's give a nod to Dylan Thomas, and "How Green Was My Valley".

[Ciexyz]

In a red-brick farmhouse in the Patagonian village of Gaiman....

So is "Gaiman" a Welsh name? I admire the comic book writings and horror novels of the British author Neil Gaiman ("Sandman"). I wondered about his name, whether he made it up because maybe it was a hidden joke that he was gay. Not that I know anything (or care) about his sexual preference. I was just afraid to say his name to people, that I read Neil Gaiman, because they might think it was a gay novel.

[Myrddin]

Also recommended is "Hedd Wynn". You can get a copy from Sain Recordiau. I paid an extra 5 pounds to have my copy converted from PAL to NTSC. The audio on my copy is Welsh with English subtitles if you have trouble following it. All English audio versions are available too. Hedd Wynn is the bardic name of a young Welsh farmer who sought to win the chair awarded at the national competition for poets. He was conscripted into the Royal Army and ended up sending his submission from the battlefield in France. I won't spoil the ending for those who wish to watch the movie.

[Ciexyz]

I ordered a strange little gem of a movie on ebay, titled "Happy Now", starring Ioan Gruffudd as a police inspector investigating a murder in a small Welsh town. It's interesting to me as an American to hear the Welsh accents in the film.

[Myrddin]

My cousins in Pontrhydygroes speak English, but you can discern a little pause as they formulate it. Welsh is their native language. I was practicing Welsh and singing in the language with such regularity that I started picking up a Welsh accent. It doesn't persist unless I'm using it daily.

The leader singer from Plethyn, Linda Healy, just released a new CD in March 2003. I just spotted the announcement on the Sain site. Linda sings and speaks in the mid-valleys dialect that was spoken by my family before them emigrated to the U.S.

[PoisedWoman]

Whatever you asked, I don't think so.... :>)

I just discovered my Welsh roots a couple of years ago, thanks in part to meeting a distant cousin at FR on another thread about Wales. I then went to one of the online genealogy sites and within fifteen minutes discovered a second cousin who has done an enormous amount of work on the family tree who had been looking for me for twenty years. Imagine that! I learned that we have a huge clan here in the western states and met about 50 relatives at a reunion. One of my closer cousins, who bears the Kidwell name (I do not), is Justice of the Supreme Court of Idaho, though we have yet to meet.

I plan to visit Wales, perhaps next year, and take a look at Kidwelly, from whence the Thomas and Kidwell ancestors departed in 1621. I'd love to learn to at least pronounce the language.

I did fall madly in love with the first Welsh Corgi I met, bought a pair and raised two lovely litters long before I realized my Welsh connection. Funny what clings to the DNA.

I ejoyed reading through your posts on this thread. If you have a Welsh ping list, please add my name.

[Clemenza]

There are Irish settlements in Patagonian also. And they were more than glad to fight the Brits in the Falklands. I remember reading a article where the Irish fought harder than any of the Argentine troops, this according to a Brit commander.

Let's not forget that legendary Argentine of Irish and Basque heritage Ernesto Guevara LYNCH.

[Myrddin]

O ble rydychi yn dod? (From where do you come?). Mae fyn heulu dod o Aberystwyth yn Cymru. (My family comes from Aberystwyth in Wales). There is an organization in North America is offers courses in Welsh. Their website can be found here. I corresponded via e-mail for months with Mark Nodine as he crafted a Welsh lexicon. My contribution was to help him make a great tool run lightning fast.

Welsh geneology that goes back further than 1754 becomes challenging. It was in that year that the English forced the Welsh to take surnames. Prior to that time, you needed about 4 generations of patronymic association and typically the name of the house where the family resided.

Welsh is totally phonetic. What you see is what you say. The rules are very simple. The single most difficult sound for native English speakers to master is the "ll" in Welsh. The closest approximation is to run together the sounds of "th" in "think" followed by the letter "L". Pronounce "llan" as "thlan" with a strong aspiration. The Welsh letter "NG" is pronounced just as in the trailing letters of the English word "song". It is nasal. It also makes for interesting search in the dictionary collating order. The Welsh letter "ch" is pronounced in a more gutteral fashion than the German or Scottish (Bach or loch). English speakers get tripped up on words that begin with "ch" as in "chimod". It's pretty easy on a trailing syllable.

Good luck in your linguistic travels.

[Ciexyz]

Thanks to everyone for posting all those interesting links. As for learning Welsh, all I know is one word: Cymru. At least that's a start!

Another Welsh video that's available in the states: Ioan Gruffudd's "Solomon and Gaenor", which was nominated for best foreign film at the Oscars several years ago. It was also shown at a number of Jewish film festivals across the US. (I followed all this on some of the Ioan sites on the Net.)

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing the two new Horatio Hornblower films (four hours total) on A&E sometime this year.

[PoisedWoman]

Prior to that time, you needed about 4 generations of patronymic association and typically the name of the house where the family resided.

Interesting. Perhaps everyone who came from Kidwelly was named Kidwell...? The name showed up on passenger list of boat that left in 1621.

Thanks for the language lesson and links. I hope to have time to explore at depth.

[blam]

bump.

[SunkenCiv]

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Note: this topic is from April 18, 2003. Blast from the Past. Thanks blam. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[Ramius]

Wow... What a fascinating thread. What’s the relationship between Welsh and the other Celtic or Gaelic languages? Similar? Derivative?

[afraidfortherepublic]

I have a small, brass, door knocker that pictures a woman in traditional Welsh costume (tall hat, long skirt) and says “Bettws-y-coed” across the top and “Wales” across the bottom. Can anybody translate?

[Last of the Mohicans]

Betws-y-coed is a lovely little village in the hills of north Wales. I was there in 1988.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Thank you! So it’s a PLACE! I’ve been asking Brits (including those of Welsh descent) for a translation for over 25 years. I bought that door knocker in an antique store about 30 years ago. I can’t remember where, but it could have been in Canada. I used to collect door knockers until I ran out of doors.