Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A war unlike any we'd ever seen
Toronto Sun ^ | April 13, 2003 | Peter Worthington

Posted on 04/13/2003 6:04:55 PM PDT by Clive

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last
To: xp38
I concur- and thanks for the info. Cheers.
21 posted on 04/13/2003 8:59:39 PM PDT by Peter Libra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: coydog
Wow! Tell us how you REALLY feel.
22 posted on 04/13/2003 9:08:26 PM PDT by DensaMensa (He who controls the definitions controls History. He who controls History controls the future.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan
Russia's continuing betrayal of the U.S. is the currently largest underreported story of this war.
23 posted on 04/13/2003 9:18:51 PM PDT by GEC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan
BTTT
24 posted on 04/13/2003 9:41:17 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan; Allan; Badabing Badaboom
Of course, Saddam is nowhere to be found. If we cut a deal with him, that would itself explain the amazingly rapid collapse of the regime, not to mention the absence of any resort to WMD.

But what would such a deal look like? I don't think it would consist merely of Saddam's promise not to use his WMD and our promise to let him live luxuriously in exile.

Here's the problem. Iraqi agents abroad may have anthrax ready for use. Wouldn't we demand that Saddam tell us where that anthrax is pre-positioned, so that we can remove the threat? Even admitting that he might not tell us about all of it, we could at least remove some of the threat.

If Saddam doesn't have anthrax pre-positioned abroad, then he couldn't make good on our demand -- but in that case, we could safely forgo a deal, since the WMD threat wouldn't actually exist.

In addition, we would demand that he tell us where his production facilities for weaponized anthrax are. Once again, if he doesn't have such production facilities, the deal's off, because we don't need it.

I'm aware of no hints that anything like this has transpired. The turning over of the location of the pre-positioned anthrax might be kept secret, but I think the inspection of the anthrax production facility would at least be the subject of rumor.

Moreover, any such agreement would leave us in a precarious position for a long time. After all, somebody other than Saddam has physical possession of the anthrax, and somebody other than Saddam knows the technical means of weaponization. Those people are not trustworthy, and they would not have any particular incentive not to use their knowledge. There are a number of reasons that they might choose to use the anthrax themselves, on their own.

The house arrest of Saddam (which is more or less what we're talking about) would, in fact, separate him from control of his WMD, leaving us with no leverage over the situation at all. We'd be holding him hostage, but he would no longer be the effective owner of the anthrax. The people who count would be those who inherited the anthrax, and they would not be part of the mutual deterrence arrangement.

So I do not believe that any such agreement has been reached. Whether Saddam is dead or whether he is alive and on the run, I don't know. But I don't think that a deal has been agreed to.

25 posted on 04/13/2003 11:06:34 PM PDT by Mitchell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: nutmeg
bump
26 posted on 04/13/2003 11:08:27 PM PDT by nutmeg (Liberate Iraq - Support Our Troops!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan
I have a suspicion Bush went to Putin 18 months ago and told him, "Vlad, we have a situation. Here's how you can help..."

I keep getting the same feeling myself, that Bush and Putin have choreographed the strategy so that Putin can keep Russia out of the conflict on our behalf while staying out of trouble with his xenophobic Russian constitutency - while eventually cashing in on the spoils.

But then I wonder if I'm indulging in post-cold-war fantasizing... and have been reassured by various others on this forum that in fact I am, that nothing has changed in Russia, that Putin is Satan incarnate, etc. etc...

The problem in debating either way is that AFAIK we have no evidence either way, and can only speculate...

27 posted on 04/14/2003 12:33:49 AM PDT by fire_eye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Mitchell; Badabing Badaboom; Fred Mertz; oceanview; birdwoman; Allan
There are many, many terrible WMD pointed at us at this very moment in various countries, and this is not a new situation. All it would take would be a decision by the owners of those weapons to unleash "a day of horror worse than we have ever known." But, it's not in their interests to do so, so they don't. That is the real answer to the WMD threat -- not disarmament -- because the genie is out of the bottle and there's nothing can be done to put it back in the bottle.
28 posted on 04/14/2003 1:09:13 AM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: fire_eye
Watch Bush. See how he relates to Putin from now on. That's a clue. So far, I see no signs that he's PO-ed at Putin.
29 posted on 04/14/2003 1:10:29 AM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Clive
What we saw during Gulf War I was our military doctrine ( high tech ) versus Soviet doctrine ( throw a lot of low tech iron at the problem )-- and we all know how that turned out.

What we have just seen in the 3-Week War is Information-Tech,
( Some call it Hyperwarfare... )
or 21st Century warfare versus 20th Century...

What I would suggest, and call your attention to, is the fact that we, and Israel, are capable of waging 21st Century warfare, and the entire Arab world is not.

Proven fact, by recent events.

Believe me, lessons are being drawn, across the world...

30 posted on 04/14/2003 1:26:12 AM PDT by backhoe (For Evil to prosper, it is only necessary that good men do nothing...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MattinNJ
Castro and Mugabe should be next with Chavez in the on deck circle.

While all three are annoying, none poses a threat to the US. We didn't go after Saddam because he irritated us. We went after him because he posed threat. The big-haired loon in Pyongyang is the next biggest threat, followed by the Ayatollahs in Iran.

The Iran problem may be taking care of itself. As neighboring Iraq gets back on its feet, the Iranian people will wonder why they shouldn't also share in liberty and prosperity. The further this progresses, the greater the chance that the Islamists may be pushed from power by a population that's grown weary of the poverty that stems from an all-consuming hatred of the US. In fact, the Ayatollahs are already exploring ways to normalize relations with "The Great Satan" as a way of heading off this development.

In North Korea, Hopefully, the mere threat of "Shock and Awe: Part II" will cause Kim to consider more peaceful ways to cling to power. (Perhaps he'll notice that Saddam would still be in power had he only swallowed his pride and given up his WMDs.)

31 posted on 04/14/2003 1:34:34 AM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan; Badabing Badaboom; Allan
There are many, many terrible WMD pointed at us at this very moment in various countries, and this is not a new situation. All it would take would be a decision by the owners [my emphasis] of those weapons to unleash "a day of horror worse than we have ever known." But, it's not in their interests to do so, so they don't.

Of course this is true. But Saddam Hussein is no longer the owner of the anthrax. He may once have been, I don't know. But he does not control the anthrax now, any more than he controls Baghdad or Gen. al-Saadi.

With Saddam's network of control by fear having unravelled, any anthrax he used to control is now owned by whoever has physical possession of it. What is deterring these new owners from using it for some purpose of their own?

As far as a deal with Saddam Hussein goes, what does he have to offer? He no longer has a card to play in the game.

32 posted on 04/14/2003 9:40:09 AM PDT by Mitchell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Mitchell
There is no way that the stashes are under the physical control of anybody Saddam does not trust completely -- and there are very few people like that. So, I wouldn't worry too much about that. If we have Saddam, we have control. Of course, if any one of Saddam, Uday, Qusay, or perhaps a handful of other people have simply escaped, we are in big trouble. Which is why I don't think they've simply escaped. Something else has been arranged.
33 posted on 04/14/2003 9:45:09 AM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: The Great Satan; Badabing Badaboom; Allan
There is no way that the stashes are under the physical control of anybody Saddam does not trust completely

Your theory has been that Saddam put a mechanism in place to ensure that somebody would inherit the anthrax if he were killed or incapacitated.

As you say, he would have picked people he trusted completely. But do these people really care what happens to Saddam at this point? Or would they be willing to sacrifice him for personal ambition or gain?

It's up to them. Therefore, they are in control of the anthrax, not Saddam.

Saddam is in no position to make a deal not to use his WMD, because he can't demonstrate that he can deliver on any such promise.

There is one kind of deal that Saddam could make. He could tell us the location of the stashed anthrax, the locations of the development and production facilities, and the identities of his trusted heirs. But that's the only card he has left to play in terms of making a deal with us.

I see no evidence that he has made such a deal.

[Needless to say, all of this is predicated on the anthrax originally being from Saddam. We don't know whether this is, in fact, the case.]

34 posted on 04/14/2003 10:12:45 AM PDT by Mitchell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: backhoe
actually the real war we faced in iraq was not against iraqi tanks but against hordes of crazy fedayeen who dressed as civilians, kept human shields, coerced others to fight and promoted homicide bombers. We also faced a very effective iraqi propaganda campaign. These are the unique weapons of the arab/islamists (we faced the same crap in Afghanistan but on a much smaller scale) and we were still able to defeat them hands down.
35 posted on 04/14/2003 10:23:55 AM PDT by arielb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: fire_eye
I think your indulging in the later. I believe that Russis is NOT to be trusted. It has been steadily aligning itself with the Arabs and will continue to do so. Putin is no friend!!
36 posted on 04/14/2003 12:34:02 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks belong South)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Clive
"The "new" world order, if that's not too strong a phrase, is likely to congeal around American, British and Australian leadership"

And since there is no leadership in the Canadian government, Canada isn't part of it.
37 posted on 04/14/2003 7:14:16 PM PDT by Grig
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson