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Sen. Rockefeller: Iraq Democracy is "Pipe Dream" and Not Desirable; They Can't Handle It
Sunday News-Register (Wheeling, WV) | April 13, 2003 | Justin Anderson

Posted on 04/13/2003 7:08:30 AM PDT by mountaineer

As leaders from nations around the globe begin to ponder the type of government post-war Iraq will enjoy, in an interview with the Sunday News-Register, U.S. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., expressed hesitation regarding the possibility of a viable form of a democratic political structure in postwar Iraq.

"The idea of democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream," he said. "Iraq has never been a democracy. One of America's problems is that we are focusing on Saddam and not what is the country of Iraq. We tend to focus on individuals."

To Rockefeller and others in the federal government, the goal of stabilization and normalization is more achievable and far more urgent to the welfare of the Iraqi people. Following regime change, the office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance will be responsible in the initial phases for helping Iraqis restore the delivery of essential services like water, basic medical care and electricity.

If a democracy succeeded in Iraq, it would be a 20-30 year process, Rockefeller said. "(Democracy) is not desirable at this point. The (Iraqi) people are not ready for a democracy."

It will be difficult to win the trust of the Iraqi people after the war. By and large, civilian Iraqis live a tribal existence, Rockefeller said. A mistrust, at least on the parts of the Shiite Muslims in the south of the country, began to flourish during the first Gulf War.

"The Shiites are very slow to respond," Rockefeller said. "(President George H.W.) Bush encouraged them to rebel against Saddam back in 1991 and we just walked away. They were slaughtered."

The Shiites and other tribal factions of the Iraqi civilian population are living in a "very competitive environment," Rockefeller said.

"Most of them are just trying to eke out an existence of poverty," he said. "That kind of existence doesn't breed well for democratic behavior."

President George W. Bush and Biritish Prime Minister Tony Blair had a 20-hour visit in Belfast, Northern Ireland, last week to discuss the future of an Iraq without Saddam. One of the objectives is the introduction of a democratic state.

"I really don't know how much (Bush) knows about the country," Rockefeller said. "I've read books on it and otherwise researched it. I think that's pretty much what youhave to do to begin to understand a culture. It's not just a question of where your tanks go."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: arabs; carpetbagger; democracy; iraq; jayrockefeller; postwariraq; rockefeller
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To: mountaineer
Nonsense and convoluted thinking again from the left. Japan was a warrior state led by a warrior god king. Japan's history was one of tribal warfare, shogun rivalry, genocide between hostile waring groups, and when the US Military finally left Japan they had a stable democracy and a stable economy.

It surely can be done, but none of the Shieks want democracies in the Middle East. It is much to threatening for them. Nevertheless, it will be done and it will work and the face of the Middle East is changed forever.
201 posted on 04/14/2003 6:22:44 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts (I see the world and my surroundings in a new light and I still hate all things Clinton)
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To: mountaineer
This is why some in third-world countries consider liberals like Rockefeller racist and in many ways similar to the European colonials who used to rule them with complete disdain for the unwashed and uncivilized populace. Come to think of it, the British under King George used to think that this country forefathers could not govern themselves either.
202 posted on 04/14/2003 6:25:13 AM PDT by noDixieCan
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To: tet68
"Of course the thing to remember is that Rockefeller feels the same way about us."

It's the blood line. Don't forget Nelson, and his infamous "Rockefeller Salute". The all-American role model who had a heart attack and died while breaking his marriage vows embracing the beast with two backs.

That tribe accumulated its blood money on bodies stacked as high as the Great Pyramid. They are living hell, just like the Kennedy's. What goes round comes round. Scum one and all.

203 posted on 04/14/2003 6:53:32 AM PDT by Robert Drobot
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To: mountaineer
Rockefeller really is not terribly smart. Actually, I usually describe him as dumb as a post, having interviewed him and found him incapable of answering difficult questions.

My wish for the perfect Rockefeller interview:

Yo Sinner Rocky, watt yor sayin is yor as dumb as a post or youse is a post?

204 posted on 04/14/2003 6:55:09 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!!!)
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To: Captain Kirk
If you believe that Iraq cannot learn democracy simply because they are Arabs, you are a racist. Period. That is the definition of racism. That is the complete context of my statement, which you continue to protest. If you want to argue, bring it up at your next Klan meeting.
205 posted on 04/14/2003 9:42:49 AM PDT by Timmy
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To: Captain Kirk
Liberals always believe tyranny is OK for those "less enlightened" peoples.

I just wanted to reprint my one-line comment that you have continued to argue about. You're first post was:

Well...then why aren't you on hind legs demanding that the U.S. implement your ideal in Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia, and elsewhere? Oh...don't forget about Afghanistan where warlords rule and the heroin crop has increased to new highs. Wouldn't it be "racist" to believe otherwise?

Now. That should make my last post even clearer.

206 posted on 04/14/2003 9:48:50 AM PDT by Timmy
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To: Timmy
I never said any such thing. I was speaking about historical and cultural impediments to a quick adoption of democracy in a country like Iraq. The same problems apply in "white" countries such as Kosovo. But then you appear to follow the model of your mentor, Al Sharpton, of screaming "racist" anytime anyone dares to disagree with you.
207 posted on 04/14/2003 9:49:31 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk
Calling anyone who disagrees with you "Al Sharpton" doesn't exactly bolster your case, Capt.
208 posted on 04/14/2003 10:12:53 AM PDT by mountaineer
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To: Timesink; mountaineer; hchutch
Somehow, I never thought a Rockefeller would actually just about reach the point of referring to the Iraqis as "sand ni**ers" in a public speech...
209 posted on 04/14/2003 10:14:14 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Captain Kirk
Haiti and Kosovo were half baked actions involving third parties.

Afghanistan and Iraq were planned and undertaken largely by us.

Let's give Afghanistan and Iraq 5 years and let's compare those two cases to the situations in Haiti and Kosova.
210 posted on 04/14/2003 11:56:10 AM PDT by Publicus
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To: mountaineer
Anyone who calls people "racist" at the drop of a hat deserves be compared to Al Sharpton. Why do you disagree? Race baiters of that type have probably done more harm to our country than any other group.
211 posted on 04/14/2003 12:13:13 PM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk
Anyone who calls people "Al Sharpton" at the drop of a hat deserves to have his opinions disregarded.
212 posted on 04/14/2003 12:45:28 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: mountaineer
If West By God Virginia can handle democracy, Iraq can handle it Mr. Rockefeller... how about you find some private employment for your state instead of voicing your ignorance on foreign policy...

WV Largest Private employer is WalMart... the only employers bigger than that are the state and federal governments.... You got other things you should be worried about Mr. Rockefeller.
213 posted on 04/14/2003 12:48:09 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
WV's biggest employer used to be Weirton Steel. Now it's Wal-Mart. Rockefeller and Byrd take all the credit in the world for saving the state's steel industry, but they've really done nothing. The only governmental action in recent years that seems to have helped Weirton and Wheeling-Pitt steel (or, at least, was what the union workers demanded) was the tariffs imposed by (*gulp!*) the Bush Administration.
214 posted on 04/14/2003 12:54:30 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: mountaineer
Drop of a hat? I don't use the "Al Sharpton" tag lightly. I only reserve that comment for people who dismiss their opponents "racists" (a truly ugly smear) rather than address the facts.

The issue of whether Iraqis can "take" to democracy right now is a serious one. You have made serious and thoughtful arguments for this proposition. I disagree but your argumetns were reasonable and avoided smears.

On the other hand, those (on either side) who call others racist deserve to be called on it immediately. Hopefully I would do the same for any race-baiter. Promiscuous name calling of that type only serves to empower the true racists in society.

215 posted on 04/14/2003 1:15:09 PM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk
Well ... I can think of several reasons, one being "bombs". But ... since I'm not part of the Bush admin, I guess you'll have to ask them.
216 posted on 04/14/2003 2:41:50 PM PDT by CyberAnt ( America - You Are The Greatest!!)
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To: Publicus
I agree. I should put it out that we did ourselves. So should the Iraqis.
217 posted on 04/14/2003 3:12:56 PM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: CyberAnt
Bombs? Since when does "bombs" make the Iraqis incapable to running an interim government. As to asking Bush, you and should have to ask our "leaders" before expressing an opinion.
218 posted on 04/14/2003 3:15:33 PM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk
"Bombs? Since when does "bombs" make the Iraqis incapable to running an interim government. As to asking Bush, you and should have to ask our "leaders" before expressing an opinion"

First of all, you canot do a lot of interim govt running if bombs are falling on you.

As for the second sentence in your tirade - I can't even figure out what you're saying. What is your problem ...?? If you don't agree with me, so be it - my opinions are not based on what you say or don't say.
219 posted on 04/14/2003 4:00:10 PM PDT by CyberAnt ( America - You Are The Greatest!!)
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To: mountaineer
He is a democrat.

He would probably know.

That is the way it is over here, so long as one agrees with the democrats everything is rosy. The trouble begins when one begins to think for themselves.

The democrats want to make us state-owned slaves. Some republicans say,"by golly if they can do it, so can we".
220 posted on 04/14/2003 4:10:47 PM PDT by sport
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