Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? (Trial balloon to gauge the public reaction?)

sierratimes ^ | 4/8/2003 | J.J. Johnson

[TLBSHOW]

Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? By Report by J.J. Johnson

WASHINGTON, April 8 - According to the New York Times , Congressional Republicans are working to make permanent the sweeping antiterrorism powers given to federal law enforcement agents after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The Times reports that the move is likely to touch off strong objections from many Democrats and even some Republicans in Congress who believe that the Patriot Act, as the legislation that grew out of the attacks is known, has already given the government too much power to spy on Americans. If you recall, it was only passed with the agreement there would be a sunshine clause inserted, where Congress would have to review the act in 2005.

The legislation expanded the government's power to use eavesdropping, surveillance, access to financial and computer records and other tools to track terrorist suspects, clearly testing the limits of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments to the Constitution. It has been on the books since October of 2001.

The times said the move to repeal the ‘sunset’ clause was crafted by one Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah. Republicans may seek to move on the proposal this week by trying to attaching it to another antiterrorism bill that would make it easier for the government to use secret surveillance warrants against "lone wolf" terrorism suspects.

Bear in mind that while the New York Times laid on this on Hatch, the Utah Senator made no comment on the record. Nor has any other republican. Democrats, needless to say, aren’t too happy about it. Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD), predicted that Republicans lacked the votes to repeal the limits.

The Times also wrote that Justice Department officials credited the Patriot Act with allowing the F.B.I. to move with greater speed and flexibility to disrupt terrorist operations before they occur, and they say they wanted to see the 2005 time limit on the legislation lifted.

"The Patriot Act has been an extremely useful tool, a demonstrated success, and we don't want that to expire on us," a senior department official said on condition of anonymity.

Another senior official who also demanded anonymity said the department had held discussions with Congressional Republicans about how that might best be accomplished. "Our involvement has really been just keeping an open ear to the issue as it's proceeding, not to really guide the debate," the official said.

Again, notice how no one wanted to go on the record about this. Debate is expected, but months away. The Sierra Times suggests, consider this New York Times story an official ‘trial balloon’ to gauge the public reaction. Chances of the sunshine clause being lifted is slim at best - unless another major terrorist attack happens before then

[drypowder]

So much for the Constitution?? Not!! If, God forbid, this happens it will definitely be time to restaff all of Washington D.C. regardless of the current condition of the country.

[TLBSHOW]

that is what I said on the original thread, (if true), but we know Tips was real. I would not put it passed them to try and make this real too.........sad to say!

[Spirited]

"such as Debka"

I was amused when FOX interviewed Debka pretty extensively last night about the Baghdad underground tunnels. I was wondering how some of the rabid here would view that.

Debka has some credibility, somewhere, at times.

We desperately need to disallow the Patriot Act from any sway for any time, much less permanent.

[AAABEST]

RE your #2

RIGHT ON BROTHER

[TLBSHOW]

here is another one under the radar, again consider the source but??????????

An Ominous Attack on Judges 4/7/2003

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/opinion/07MON3.html

and now

4/9/2003

Agreement on 'Amber Alert' Bill
By REUTERS

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/09/national/09AMBE.html
WSHINGTON, April 8 — House and Senate negotiators compromised today on a bill to create an "Amber alert" child kidnapping warning system, but lawmakers said some anticrime provisions in the measure could derail it in the Senate.

"I don't know if it can pass," Senator Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont, the senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said after a contentious conference meeting.

Concern centers on provisions that critics said would upset the balance in the 20-year-old system of federal sentencing guidelines.

[TLBSHOW]

We need to press Hatch for verification

BUMP

[dirtboy]

Debka has some credibility, somewhere, at times.

The problem is, they've been caught lying so many times, and so many of their more fantastic claims never are subsequently borne out by events, that you can't believe anything they say in realtime.

[hobbes1]

No, you actually need to read the whole article in the Times.

This is tit for tat amendment jockeying.

It is poorly written, but a fair reading suggests, that Hatch's amendment is being offered more out of brinksmanship, than a hidden agenda.

[dirtboy]

Concern centers on provisions that critics said would upset the balance in the 20-year-old system of federal sentencing guidelines.

Wow, they finally get concerned about federal sentencing guidelines that have been out of balance for some time - because of a provision that a second felony offense for molesting a minor carry a life sentence.

[APBaer]

Saddam might be the vilest person on earth, but
go into your room, pull down the shades, take out a pad.

Make two columns.
In one column list everything that Saddam did to *you*,
add everything the nutty Talebin did to *you*,
add in everything that the fruitcake Kim Il did to *You*
Then sum up that column.

Go to the other column.
List there every way that some other government has screwed you around. It might take you some time, hopefully you'll finish by April 15th.
Then sum up that column.

Which column is bigger?
Sssh. Don't tell me, don't even say it out loud.
Just tell these "Conservative" Republicans "Please, sir, can I have some more"?

[MineralMan]

"Why are the Republicans doing this? I thought they were on our side. Are they that damn corrupt? I guess they are."

You're confusing Republican Senators with conservatives. Many are not, you see. Remember who brought you the Patriot Act in the first place.

I'm sorry, but these restrictions on your liberties are not just the fault of Democrats. This stuff was passed by Republicans and signed off on by a Republican President.

Just watch as more and more restrictions are added.

[henderson field]

I vote no. Only a communist would vote yes.

[TLBSHOW]

You're confusing Republican Senators with conservatives. Many are not, you see. Remember who brought you the Patriot Act in the first place.

And There lies the problem........BIG TIME

[MineralMan]

"And There lies the problem........BIG TIME"

So it seems.

[MineralMan]

Here's some new information on the CAPPS II program that might interest everyone:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030409-24428752.htm

[TLBSHOW]

looks like Drudge has now linked to the times story and its on his site.

Drudge Headline........

GOP may try to make Patriot Act Permanent this week!

[samuel_adams_us]

I agree with your comments but why didn't we need these kinds of laws during WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Grenada, and Now Iraqi Freedom?

[michaelje]

GROW UP PEOPLE, IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.

[SuperLuminal]

Why should this move by the republocrats surprise anyone? A politician of today by any other name is a facist wanabee.

Sovietization continues at an ever-accelerating pace!