Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? (Trial balloon to gauge the public reaction?)

sierratimes ^ | 4/8/2003 | J.J. Johnson

[TLBSHOW]

Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? By Report by J.J. Johnson

WASHINGTON, April 8 - According to the New York Times , Congressional Republicans are working to make permanent the sweeping antiterrorism powers given to federal law enforcement agents after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The Times reports that the move is likely to touch off strong objections from many Democrats and even some Republicans in Congress who believe that the Patriot Act, as the legislation that grew out of the attacks is known, has already given the government too much power to spy on Americans. If you recall, it was only passed with the agreement there would be a sunshine clause inserted, where Congress would have to review the act in 2005.

The legislation expanded the government's power to use eavesdropping, surveillance, access to financial and computer records and other tools to track terrorist suspects, clearly testing the limits of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments to the Constitution. It has been on the books since October of 2001.

The times said the move to repeal the ‘sunset’ clause was crafted by one Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah. Republicans may seek to move on the proposal this week by trying to attaching it to another antiterrorism bill that would make it easier for the government to use secret surveillance warrants against "lone wolf" terrorism suspects.

Bear in mind that while the New York Times laid on this on Hatch, the Utah Senator made no comment on the record. Nor has any other republican. Democrats, needless to say, aren’t too happy about it. Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD), predicted that Republicans lacked the votes to repeal the limits.

The Times also wrote that Justice Department officials credited the Patriot Act with allowing the F.B.I. to move with greater speed and flexibility to disrupt terrorist operations before they occur, and they say they wanted to see the 2005 time limit on the legislation lifted.

"The Patriot Act has been an extremely useful tool, a demonstrated success, and we don't want that to expire on us," a senior department official said on condition of anonymity.

Another senior official who also demanded anonymity said the department had held discussions with Congressional Republicans about how that might best be accomplished. "Our involvement has really been just keeping an open ear to the issue as it's proceeding, not to really guide the debate," the official said.

Again, notice how no one wanted to go on the record about this. Debate is expected, but months away. The Sierra Times suggests, consider this New York Times story an official ‘trial balloon’ to gauge the public reaction. Chances of the sunshine clause being lifted is slim at best - unless another major terrorist attack happens before then

[Abundy]

And I think you are in denial of the character of the people who now run the government.

I haven't forgotten 1993-2001, character actually matters now, and people of good charcater are now running the War on Terrorism.

I'll say it again:

Dane - I've been watching your discussion regarding the Patriot Act and I will respond civilly. You are dead wrong. The entire premise of our government is one of limitation of power because power always corrupts. The document that sets up our govenrment is intended to restrict the lowest common denominator, the worst of the worst, should they get into office somehow. ANY legislation that is premised on lawful use of power by a good and benevolent head of state or congress (regardless of how good or benevolent, present or future) should never be made law.

Period.

Your position on this thread is not only un-supportable in a historical context, i.e. the time-period during which the Constitution was penned and ratified, it is just plain dangerous.

[Dane]

Dane, with all due respect, isn't that rather short sighted?

IMHO, it is shortsighted to cynically drink up the liberal mantra that character doen't matter.

[Abundy]

Please tell me trolls from DU made those quotes.

/sarcasm

[freeeee]

I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

I often despair that the American spirit is dead. Thanks for saying that, you made my day!

[Bella_Bru]

We are supposed to be the ones in favor of limited government, aren't we?

No,no....We are for bloated government, for our ideas. gag.

[michaelje]

Yep - that one made my homepage...

Im honored....

[jmc813]

And I think you are in denial of the character of the people who now run the government.

How so? I like Bush. I disagree with him plenty, but I do believe he is a man of character.

and people of good charcater are now running the War on Terrorism.

As I mentioned before, we are in agreement here. But I am realistic and realize that we WILL have people of bad character in charge sooner than later.

Remember Dane, there is a diference between "trusting" politicians you like, and "trusting" politicians in general.

[Travis McGee]

AMEN!

[Bella_Bru]

I often despair that the American spirit is dead.

The pioneer, patriotic spirit of our founders sure is dead. They were smart, they knew that you cannot have freedom and absolute safety. They chose freedom.

[truenospinzone]

Believe me, I wish I could. But unfortunately, they're mostly gems from everyone's favorite bootlickers, one of whom is on the wrong side of the argument in this very thread...

[jmc813]

Yep - that one made my homepage...

I had never seen your homepage before. I think it's scary that I can identify the source of at least three of the wuotes on there. I'll ping you if I find any you might be able to use in the future.

[Dane]

Dane - I've been watching your discussion regarding the Patriot Act and I will respond civilly. You are dead wrong. The entire premise of our government is one of limitation of power because power always corrupts. The document that sets up our govenrment is intended to restrict the lowest common denominator, the worst of the worst, should they get into office somehow. ANY legislation that is premised on lawful use of power by a good and benevolent head of state or congress (regardless of how good or benevolent, present or future) should never be made law.

Period.

Dude, we live in a different world since 9/11. Now is not the time to handwring, especially even when according to a lot of critics of the Patriot Act will concede that the people who proposed the Patriot Act are people of good character.

It is common sense that in this dangerous world to keep people of character and competance in power to deal with the threat of worldwide terrorism.

Of course that would presuppose that you actually think that there is threat, and IMHO, you like the leftist democrats and ACLU, you do not think that there is a threat to America at the present time.

[truenospinzone]

It's time to play the dreaded Answer a Direct Question For Once game. Ready, Dane? Here goes:

Do you honestly believe that only conservative Republicans will be in control of the Presidency and/or Congress for the next fifty years?

Remember, it's a direct question. Yes or no. No tapdancing around the issue allowed.

[Bella_Bru]

Oh, sh!t! Are you kidding me with some of those quotes? Do some people here actually believe that conservative means authoritarian????? You should have included the poster's screen names. ;-) But I think I know who spewed some of them.

[michaelje]

"It's time to play the dreaded Answer a Direct Question For Once game. Ready, Dane? Here goes: Do you honestly believe that only conservative Republicans will be in control of the Presidency and/or Congress for the next fifty years? Remember, it's a direct question. Yes or no. No tapdancing around the issue allowed. "

Just for kicks truenospinzone, do you think Bush is a true conservative republican? Yes or No?

[truenospinzone]

I'd appreciate that, although I always feel a mixture of guilty entertainment and deep sadness every time I see a quote here that I know deserves to make the list.

[Jhoffa_]

I see the personality cult has arrive to defend extra-constitutional abuse.

[truenospinzone]

No.

[jmc813]

Dude, we live in a different world since 9/11.

I swear, if I hear that statement one more time, I'm going to hit the ceiling. ISN'T THAT EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS INTENDED? Because of attitudes like your's the 911 terrorists' mission was successful. They instilled enough terror in enough people to change our way of life. Thanks.

[michaelje]

Do some people here actually believe that conservative means authoritarian?????

You mean to tell me there not synonymous?? ;-)