Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? (Trial balloon to gauge the public reaction?)

sierratimes ^ | 4/8/2003 | J.J. Johnson

[TLBSHOW]

Patriot Act To Be Made Permanent? By Report by J.J. Johnson

WASHINGTON, April 8 - According to the New York Times , Congressional Republicans are working to make permanent the sweeping antiterrorism powers given to federal law enforcement agents after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The Times reports that the move is likely to touch off strong objections from many Democrats and even some Republicans in Congress who believe that the Patriot Act, as the legislation that grew out of the attacks is known, has already given the government too much power to spy on Americans. If you recall, it was only passed with the agreement there would be a sunshine clause inserted, where Congress would have to review the act in 2005.

The legislation expanded the government's power to use eavesdropping, surveillance, access to financial and computer records and other tools to track terrorist suspects, clearly testing the limits of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments to the Constitution. It has been on the books since October of 2001.

The times said the move to repeal the ‘sunset’ clause was crafted by one Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah. Republicans may seek to move on the proposal this week by trying to attaching it to another antiterrorism bill that would make it easier for the government to use secret surveillance warrants against "lone wolf" terrorism suspects.

Bear in mind that while the New York Times laid on this on Hatch, the Utah Senator made no comment on the record. Nor has any other republican. Democrats, needless to say, aren’t too happy about it. Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD), predicted that Republicans lacked the votes to repeal the limits.

The Times also wrote that Justice Department officials credited the Patriot Act with allowing the F.B.I. to move with greater speed and flexibility to disrupt terrorist operations before they occur, and they say they wanted to see the 2005 time limit on the legislation lifted.

"The Patriot Act has been an extremely useful tool, a demonstrated success, and we don't want that to expire on us," a senior department official said on condition of anonymity.

Another senior official who also demanded anonymity said the department had held discussions with Congressional Republicans about how that might best be accomplished. "Our involvement has really been just keeping an open ear to the issue as it's proceeding, not to really guide the debate," the official said.

Again, notice how no one wanted to go on the record about this. Debate is expected, but months away. The Sierra Times suggests, consider this New York Times story an official ‘trial balloon’ to gauge the public reaction. Chances of the sunshine clause being lifted is slim at best - unless another major terrorist attack happens before then

[Dane]

Do what you will while I will trust no govt democrat or republican from here on out.

IMHO, you never trusted anybody, but just glom on to the issue and person of the day.

That's your right, but it is seen as transparent and self-serving, IMO.

[Coleus]

Say Good bye to the Constitution all in the name of Terrorism and so-called public safety.

[michaelje]

"Bwhahahahahahah. If the law said it was illegal to be Christian(or Jewish, Agnostic, whatever), would you support that?

Dan, where have you been? The laws all but say its illegal to be a Christian or true Jew.

[Belial]

Sorry but I will believe Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft over the New York Times 24/7.

Of course you will. Set up the good guys vs. the bad guys, everyone hates the Times. That'll convince us the Patriot Act should stay!

It seems that you will believe anybody who is singing your, IMO, paranoid tune, and in this case today it is the New York Times.

And nothing like a little strawman to go with the rest of your BS.

You're a kneejerk supporter of the party line. Your ridiculous "arguments" don't fool anyone.

[eBelasco]

Didn't Nixon try to drastically change the domestic spying powers of the CIA, NSA etc, and when Hoover shot that balloon down, he just did it clandestinely anyway? He was just ahead of the times.

[tacticalogic]

Your argument is rooted in the fact that your paranoid. Have a drink and relax.

Your argument is rooted in the fact that you're a bootlicking sheep. Have some coffee, wake up, and grow a spine.

[Dan from Michigan]

Relax Dan, no one is going to search your house unless your suspect. Are you suspect?

Anyone can be a suspect at any time for any reason. If you get a crappy prosecutor like a Dan Harmon(Clinton friend), you can be a suspect real easily for posting on a forum like this.

[Freedom2specul8]

You are just pulling our legs aren't you.

[michaelje]

"If govt banned guns, I would still have them. Why? Cause any law that prohibits means of defending myself and my family is not worthy of being followed by me. "

No you wouldnt have them. Talk is very very cheap. Similiar to England and Australia, two of our great allies, your guns would be confiscated by the authorites who come door to door- registry in hand.

[jmc813]

No. But more importantly have you been fighting it (the confiscation)?

Believe me Mike, if the government starts going door to door confiscating guns, the GREAT majority of gun-owning FReepers will most certainly be "fighting it". And the results will not be pretty.

[Freedom2specul8]

"And imagine--- What if it was George W. Bush who gave the power to them?? Spooky, eh?"

I'm upset at the thought of the current administration supporting this idea for future clinton/gores YES!

[Belial]

That's just proof that God-given rights can be infringed by governments. See CFR and gun restrictions here for examples closer to home.

Could you list for me which rights are God-given? How do you know if God intends you to give 15% or your income to the government, or more, or none? Does God intend for you to drive on the left, or right side of the street?

PS- about the 3/5 compromise...you're right. Sorry about, that, I forgot slaves couldn't vote at all. But back to the original point, it's pretty clear the constitution needs to be at least somewhat flexible, no?

[Stew Padasso]

I still have my guns and will always have them, and yes I have done my part to secure that right.

Your posts suggest that you would roll over if gubmint made guns illegal. IMO that makes you a coward.

[Freedom2specul8]

God created the fight or flight defense mechanism in our bodies. He gave us the ability to be able to protect ourselves against EVIL, whether by running or using a tool in self-defense.

[Dane]

You're a kneejerk supporter of the party line. Your ridiculous "arguments" don't fool anyone

Actually I consider myself a judge of character and the character of Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft is heads above the character of the New York Times and, IMO, knee jerk reactionary groups such as the ACLU and their paranoid friends on the rightwing fringe.

[jmc813]

Could you list for me which rights are God-given?

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

How do you know if God intends you to give 15% or your income to the government, or more, or none? Does God intend for you to drive on the left, or right side of the street?

We the people have granted the government the right to make these laws, as long as they fall within the context of the constitution. Sadly, this is not always the case.

But back to the original point, it's pretty clear the constitution needs to be at least somewhat flexible, no?

I would argue no on that. I feel the Contitution was written in simple English so we wouldn't have to debate the meaning of it.

[michaelje]

No. But more importantly have you been fighting it (the confiscation)?

Believe me Mike, if the government starts going door to door confiscating guns, the GREAT majority of gun-owning FReepers will most certainly be "fighting it". And the results will not be pretty.

That sounds very patriotic and American, but it couldnt be farther from the truth. You see, jum813, it doesnt just happen over night- its done gradually. You are grinded down until nothing is left.

What are you missing? Consider how many states have passed 1 gun a month policies, mandatory trigger locks in the home, a straight out ban of firearms in NYC, Chicago, Boston, 10 day waiting periods, prohibitions of certain models like Glocks, S&W, Sig, Beretta, Ruger in states like MD and MA.

Your 2nd amendment rights are an illusion pal, and so is your argument.

[jmc813]

With all due respect, I believe you are in a state of clinical denial. You have absolutely REFUSED to acknowledge the possibility of liberals being in charge in the future. I beg of you never to forget 1993-2001.

[Freedom2specul8]

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Of course, the dems want Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness defined first. :)

[michaelje]

Anyone can be a suspect at any time for any reason. If you get a crappy prosecutor like a Dan Harmon(Clinton friend), you can be a suspect real easily for posting on a forum like this.

Sure. Anyone CAN be a suspect at any time for any reason. It does not mean that you will be though. Its highly unlikely that unless you are involved in illicit activities you will be subject to search, arrest, survellience, etc.