Vancouver Drug Facilities Draw Ire of U.S. Officials

The Wall Street Journal ^ | 4/1/3 | JOEL BAGLOLE

[WaveThatFlag]

Angering U.S. officials fighting the war on drugs, the Canadian city of Vancouver, British Columbia, is opening North America's first safe-injection sites for heroin users.

Backers insist it's better to treat drug addiction as a public-health issue rather than a criminal matter. Emulating European countries such as Switzerland and the Netherlands, where such sites have existed for more than a decade, health workers and politicians say they aim to stop the spread of HIV and Hepatitis C from intravenous drug use and to curb the number of heroin deaths.

[Protagoras]

This thread is about heroine, not pot.

Notwithstanding brave women,,,I reposted a line from the article. It's about what's in the article. And about certain elected thugs in this country trying to tell other countries what their laws ought to be.

[MrLeRoy]

You're the one who offered "There is nothing good about [it]" as the criterion for illegality---a criterion that tobacco meets.

I have a better idea: Tell us why tobacco is as bad for society as heroine.

Changing criteria now, I see. I doubt that tobacco is as bad for society as heroin---but I'll bet alcohol is, considering drunk driving, alcohol-fueled violence, and the lives ruined by alcoholism.

[MrLeRoy]

Are you saying it's "weak" and/or "irrational" to prefer marijuana to alcohol?

Nope.

OK.

[WaveThatFlag]

Fair enough. What Canada wants to do about drugs is up to Canada. But if people are smuggling anything illegal into this country (be it drugs, or weapons of mass destruction) from Canada, Canada needs to respect our laws and take steps to prevent those actions. Or risk having us tighten our borders. Personally, I agree with an earlier poster, that any law change that will engourage a migration of drug addicts to Vancouver is necessarily a good thing.

[jmc813]

WOD Ping

[WaveThatFlag]

Changing criteria now, I see. I doubt that tobacco is as bad for society as heroin---but I'll bet alcohol is, considering drunk driving, alcohol-fueled violence, and the lives ruined by alcoholism.

Look you are the one who insisted on dragging tobacco into the discussion, so I guess I wasn't clear on what your criteria were. Naive assumptions aside, alcohol is certainly not anywhere near as destructive as heroin. Heroine is much MUCH more addictive than alcohol, with similiar effects on productivity. Were heroin to be legalized, its negative effects on society would dwarf those of alcohol. This is just not a valid debate, and pro-druggies should have abandoned it years ago. Do you know any heroin addicts? I do.

[Protagoras]

Canada needs to respect our laws and take steps to prevent those actions.

Nonsense, they have their laws to enforce, it's not their responsibility to concern themselves with ours.

Or risk having us tighten our borders.

Which of course is our responsibility. Our government needs to mind it's own business. If they want to violate people's fundamental rights, they shouldn't expect others to do so as well.

[Hacksaw]

Look you are the one who insisted on dragging tobacco into the discussion, so I guess I wasn't clear on what your criteria were. Naive assumptions aside, alcohol is certainly not anywhere near as destructive as heroin. Heroine is much MUCH more addictive than alcohol, with similiar effects on productivity. Were heroin to be legalized, its negative effects on society would dwarf those of alcohol. This is just not a valid debate, and pro-druggies should have abandoned it years ago. Do you know any heroin addicts? I do.

Heroin is certainly highly addictive. There is a very bad problem with it in Pittsburgh, particularly in the South Hills - to the point that Bethel Park High School is now known as "Heroin HS". For some reason it has become popular among high school kids to snort it or shoot it. The worst we did in high school was get drunk and the really "bad" kids would smoke pot.

However, I think there is a much deeper problem than simply the desire to get high. I believe it is a spiritual and moral problem. I believe kids today have it a lot harder today than we had it - not in material things (which they have all too much of), but in any concept of self worth. I have never seen such defeatists as I have in HS students today. A 15 YO girl I know who is a friends with the son of my friend was dating a dealer 5 years older than her (she was 14) until he hung himself. 3 weeks later she had another boyfirned and was shooting again. There has to be something very wrong there that goes beyond drugs. I think drugs are just a symptom of a much greater problem.

Just my opinion on the subject.

[ladywolf]

Government sanctioned illegal activity. Interesting. I'm just across the border from Vancouver. Since society can't seem to control pedophiles either, will we one day be funding clinics for child molesters to get their fix as well?

[MrLeRoy]

Look you are the one who insisted on dragging tobacco into the discussion, so I guess I wasn't clear on what your criteria were.

"There is nothing good about [it]" was YOUR criterion for illegality---a criterion that tobacco fit.

Were heroin to be legalized, its negative effects on society would dwarf those of alcohol.

Nonsense. This country has, if I recall correctly, about 100 million alcohol users vs. 1 million heroin users; even if heroin use quadrupled after relegalization (and I know of no reason to think it would), the numerical disparity would still make alcohol the #1 troublemaker.

[MrLeRoy]

Since society can't seem to control pedophiles either, will we one day be funding clinics for child molesters to get their fix as well?

Child molesters violate the rights of an unwilling person; drug users violate nobody's rights.

[WaveThatFlag]

Again, people have used stubstances to alter their minds since the beginning of time. It will never change. Live with it

Men have been raping women since the beginning of time. Live with it.

[WaveThatFlag]

Nonsense. This country has, if I recall correctly, about 100 million alcohol users vs. 1 million heroin users; even if heroin use quadrupled after relegalization (and I know of no reason to think it would), the numerical disparity would still make alcohol the #1 troublemaker.

Nonsense yourself. An exponentially higher percentage of heroin users be come addicted in a very VERY short period of time.

[MrLeRoy]

Men have been raping women since the beginning of time. Live with it.

Rape violates the rights of an unwilling person; drug users violate nobody's rights.

[MrLeRoy]

An exponentially higher percentage of heroin users be come addicted in a very VERY short period of time.

According to figures cited by the Institute of Medicine, of all people who have ever used alcohol, 15% became dependent, whereas the comparable figure for heroin is 23%---substantially higher but not "exponentially" so. And I know of no evidence to support your "period of time" claim.

[WaveThatFlag]

Rape violates the rights of an unwilling person; drug users violate nobody's rights.

The economic and demoralizing effects of addiction to heroin on a personal level leads just the same to violation of others rights. Heroin becomes the users' reason for living.

[WaveThatFlag]

According to figures cited by the Institute of Medicine, of all people who have ever used alcohol, 15% became dependent, whereas the comparable figure for heroin is 23%

That's because heroin is illegal professor. Again, do you know anybody addicted to heroin? I have a lot of first-hand experience here.