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More than Sodomy?
Salon Magazine ^ | Dana Berliner and Steve Simpson

Posted on 03/26/2003 9:28:34 AM PST by Stone Mountain

More than sodomy

The Supreme Court is hearing a case challenging a Texas law against "homosexual conduct," but the real issue is whether the government can regulate private lives in the first place.

March 26, 2003 | Conservatives and liberals alike have tended to avoid public debate about Lawrence vs. Texas, a case now before the U.S. Supreme Court that challenges a Texas law criminalizing "homosexual conduct" -- that is, sex between consenting adults of the same gender. The law is fundamentally un-American, but instead of opposition spanning the political spectrum, there have been the familiar unprincipled divisions along partisan lines.

Ostensibly, the question in the case will be whether the Constitution protects a "right" to homosexual conduct. But superficial concern obscures a more fundamental question too often ignored in constitutional cases: Does the government have the power to regulate people's private lives in the first place?

This difference is not just a matter of semantics. The Declaration of Independence, which establishes the ethical foundation of American government, states that government exists to secure broad rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and gains its "just powers" from the "consent of the governed." The government, in other words, must establish its authority to act; individuals do not.

Modern constitutional jurisprudence turns this principle on its head. As the Texas court saw it, the question was whether Mr. Lawrence could establish a "fundamental" right to homosexual sodomy. Since no such right has ever been recognized, the court upheld the law. Had the court sought to make a ruling consistent with America's founding principles, it would have required the state to justify its decision to outlaw the conduct in this case.

Lawrence and his partner are consenting adults who were engaged in private conduct within the confines of Lawrence's home. They were harming no one. While it is true that laws against sodomy have a long history in this country, so does the principle that governmental power is inherently limited. The touchstone of that limitation is harm to some identifiable third party. Since Texas can show no such harm -- indeed, it didn't even try to do so -- it has no power to enter this sphere of individual conduct.

Conservatives often suggest that the states can pass laws that express the moral sentiments of a majority of the community and that the courts have no authority to intervene in those democratic decisions. But all laws are passed by democratic processes and can be said to express the moral sentiments of the community. Texas claims, in essence, that laws do not need any real justification. That is a claim that everyone -- conservatives included -- should find dangerous.

Conservatives, especially, ought to be wary of casting their lot with the states on this issue. If the states can ban purely private conduct between consenting adults, what is to keep them from banning home schooling, for instance, or instituting mandatory preschool, or requiring parents to follow certain nutritional guidelines for their children? Conservatives who condone a process that leads us down this path need to start asking themselves what exactly it is they are trying to conserve.

Unfortunately, the left's approach is no better. Where conservatives extol the virtues of the state's governmental power when it comes to certain moral or lifestyle issues, the left extols the virtues of governmental power when it comes to regulations of property and economic affairs. Both sides love governmental power when it suits their immediate agenda, but both ought to realize that this approach is only as good as one's ability to control a particular legislature. The left ought to recognize that it cannot pick and choose which aspects of individual liberty are beyond governmental power. Privacy is worth very little if one has no property on which to practice it.

America is the only country founded on the principles of individual rights and limited government. Governmental power must be limited if we are to live in a free society. Until everyone, of every political persuasion, takes this principle to heart, cases such as Lawrence vs. Texas will amount to little more than political battles over one more "right," while the war over the proper role of government in our lives rages on.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

About the writer Dana Berliner is a lawyer with the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for Justice.

Steve Simpson is a lawyer with the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for Justice.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 3branchesofgovt; homosexualagenda; houston; humanbuttshields; phoneycase; setup; sodomylaws; texas
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To: Michael.SF.
Homosexuals want to bring perversion mainstream, so we can be as Sodom, and if all are perverted, there will be no descrimination. I think of poor Lot in the Old Tesament, and I start feeling as he felt. 2 Peter 2
"4": For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

"5": And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

"6": And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

"7": And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

"8": (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

Yes, I feel "vexed" just hearing about it.
61 posted on 03/26/2003 10:39:59 AM PST by tessalu
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Why not sex with or between minors or with animals in private too? Nobody is being "harmed".

These are covered by 'Statatory Rape' and 'Animal Cruelty' laws. This article concerns 'Consenting Adults'.

62 posted on 03/26/2003 10:42:31 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Michael.SF.
Count me as one conservative who believes that the government should NOT pass laws pertaining to restrictions on the private sexual behavior of two consenting adults.

I couldn't say it any better.

63 posted on 03/26/2003 10:43:40 AM PST by Britton J Wingfield
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To: Stone Mountain
Ill-conceived upon what basis? That private indulgence in immorality must be given every lattitude by the civil law? Is that not essentially what you are arguing?

The majority of us have chosen not to live in a world with prostitutes on every corner and controlled drugs in our pharmacies.

It has been the unbending tactic of our socialist anti-Christian enemies to subvert majority rule through the courts and bring about the total corruption of society hand-in-hand with their corrupted judges. You are joining in with this brigade that brought us abortion on demand, instruction in fisting in public school "Health Class", the forbidding of public displays of religion, and cruel and unusual leniency towards vicious criminals and deviates.

The men on Stone Mountain would not join you in this fight.

64 posted on 03/26/2003 10:48:51 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Orangedog
War on alcohol-Created organized crime...War on drugs-Drug use has never been high

This is certainly news to all the Organized Crime gangs that existed prior to 1920. As to drug use never being higher - I doubt it. Can you provide some evidence of that?

65 posted on 03/26/2003 10:50:16 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Michael.SF.
Count me as one conservative who believes that the government should NOT pass laws pertaining to restrictions on the private sexual behavior of two consenting adults.

OK, I'll void your vote, and bump ya 4 votes from my voting aged kids that feel the spread of this amoral dangerous deathstyle has had it's 15 minutes and 40 billion dollars already.

66 posted on 03/26/2003 10:50:34 AM PST by carlo3b (I march for PEACE from liberalism.)
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To: TightSqueeze
Children and animals are incapable of giving legal consent, as they lack the ability to make a rational legal choice. Adults on the other hand, have the ability to rationalize their decisions even if those decisions are in conflict with current law.

Aparently their rationalizing is none to good, since reason is meant to be used to choose what is right, not to salve our conscience over engaging in crimes.

I can rationalize commiting bodily harm on those who support legalized immorality. Will you support my petition to the Supreme Court to allow it?

67 posted on 03/26/2003 10:53:46 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: jmc813
That's why you need to have a society based on a common moral perspective first, and why multiculturalism is so much nonesense. Many of our new Muslim citizens see nothing wrong with polygamy and sex with children.

The wrecking of the common American moral perspective by liberals was done with definite cause and is an enormous crime for which they cannot be forgiven. The restoration, should it ever occur, will require the suspending of all mercy towards these people. The liberal choice - "live in a society full of immorality - just don't do it yourself if you object" is no choice at all really.

68 posted on 03/26/2003 10:57:31 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Jack Black
True. And look what happened to those Greeks and Romans and their Empires.
69 posted on 03/26/2003 10:58:12 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Stone Mountain
Just a thought: if the decide they can't regulate the private lives of consenting adults, couldn't the decision be used to support legalization of drugs? Same issues of potential private health risks to consenting adults that may contribute to secondary risks to society at large.
70 posted on 03/26/2003 11:02:13 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: carlo3b
OK, I'll void your vote, and bump ya 4 votes from my voting aged kids that feel the spread of this amoral dangerous death style has had it's 15 minutes and 40 billion dollars already.

Your fighting a losing battle if you think you can defeat this 'amoral dangerous death style' by passing laws to stop it.

You defeat it by educating your children on moral behavior and good common sense, as I believe I have. I am not advocating the behavior, I just feel this is something between God and Man and not between the Government and Man.

71 posted on 03/26/2003 11:06:16 AM PST by Michael.SF. (A nod is as good as a wink, to a blind horse.)
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To: TightSqueeze
No one has a "right" to engage in immorality, regardless of consent.
From what little book of law did you pick this one out of?

Sounds like something from a certain little red book....

72 posted on 03/26/2003 11:13:03 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Steve_Seattle
Just to give one illustration of my point: If a man and woman voluntarily commit adultery go driving, and this adultery drive leads to the breakup death of one or more marriages of them, there are numerous possible consequences for society. One or more of the abandoned bereaved partners may go on welfare; there may be children who need foster care or who later develop behavioral problems stemming from the divorce death that require medical or police intervention; there will be public court costs associated with the divorce accident; publically-paid social workers may have to monitor treatment of the children and look after their welfare

Really, you must try harder. This is too easy!

73 posted on 03/26/2003 11:20:18 AM PST by steve-b
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To: steve-b
Nicely done. I was trying to figure out how imprisoning them would avoid the same set of repercussions.
74 posted on 03/26/2003 11:21:46 AM PST by Heyworth
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To: tessalu
I think of poor Lot in the Old Tesament, and I start feeling as he felt.

"Poor Lot in the Old Testament" is about as lousy an example of morals as one can get. He offered his daughters "who had not known men" to the men of Sodom "to do with as you wish".

I'd call him a scumbag, but that'd be several steps up.

75 posted on 03/26/2003 11:27:40 AM PST by jimt
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Can you give some examples of legislatively sanctioned acts of immorality?

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Have you been living in a cave next to Osama's bones?

How about the tax system (theft)? How about Waco (murder)? How about routine violations of the Constitution by public servants sworn to uphold it (bearing of false witness)?

76 posted on 03/26/2003 11:28:21 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
That's why you need to have a society based on a common moral perspective first

How do you propose we arrive there? Outlawing the Democratic Party?
77 posted on 03/26/2003 11:30:23 AM PST by jmc813 (Control for smilers can't be bought;The solar garlic starts to rot;Was it for this my life I sought?)
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To: jimt
Indeed. Even Clinton might draw the line at peddling Chelsea to save his own ass.
78 posted on 03/26/2003 11:32:32 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
A bad ruling here also endangers laws in those areas, as well as for statutory rape and adultery.

Are you getting ahead of yourself?  Is adultery illegal?  Also, consenting adults  are in question, not statutory behavior.
79 posted on 03/26/2003 11:39:16 AM PST by gcruse (Democrats are the party of the Tooth Fairy.)
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To: steve-b
if you want a break from the war, call your senators on Estrada or the tax cut...

Freepers, rather than waiting to see what happens with Estrada, we need to take the lead. That means presuring Senators, special interest groups, media organizations, etc. This thread is meant to be an ongoing effort to get this man confirmed. For too many years liberals have had their way on the courts. Now, President Bush is in a position to move the courts to the right. The election of '02 showed that the country is with the President. I think it's time to let Daschle, Hillary, and Pelosi know this is Bush country. Are you with me! Let's FREEP these people.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/847037/posts
80 posted on 03/26/2003 11:40:05 AM PST by votelife (FREE MIGUEL ESTRADA!)
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