CNN: Apache helicopters shot up in Republican Guard attack

CNN live ^ | March 23, 2003 | cnn

[mikegi]

Live report from Karl Penhaul after Apache choppers attacked Republican Guards near Karbala (sp?). This is north of Najaf and WSW 70mi of Baghdad.

He reports that our Apaches were shot up pretty bad. The IRG put up a "wall" of AAA. After returning to base, Apaches were "strewn around" instead of being parked neatly. He wouldn't confirm that all our Apaches made it back.

[JasonC]

JDAMs hit GPS coordinates, which means a particular spot on the earth's surface. That is great for buildings and bridges and SAM sites. It is rather less useful against tanks, which move from moment to moment. The way you kill armor is to fire a specifically anti-tank missile, or a tank main gun round, at that particular point target.

To deliver the ATGMs or rounds, you can use fixed wing planes (Mavericks e.g., a few at a time), or helos (Apaches, 16 at a time), or Bradley fighting vehicles (a few TOW missiles each, but vunerable to tank round replies), or M-1s (many at a time). The 101 Air Assault (alone) has around 70 Apaches for exactly this task. 70 times 16 is over 1000 ATGMs. Per sortie. That is enough to blow away several divisions in an afternoon even with many misses.

The firepower of the army, using its specialized weapons on the particular targets they are meant for, is enourmous. Higher even than that of the air force, it kills easily achieved per unit time. The air force has longer reach and is somewhat harder to hit back, so it is great for "going deep". But if you want to annihilate an enemy army you use the army - that's what the bleeding thing is for.

[green team 1999]

use napalm,burn them!

[cake_crumb]

"what's with the propaganda?"

They're laying it on awfully think this time around aren't they? One might almost think there was an agenda at work.

It's late - or early - here on the East coast, and I have to catch some sleep and get up soon. G'night all.

[denydenydeny]

Somebody help me here...this, on CNN, is a huge failure and we were beaten back by AA and almsot all Apaches severly damaged. Said nothing about getting 70 RG tanks..where is this coming from..the 70 tank kills?

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To: mikegi

I caught the tail-end of this CNN "piece". The reporter did (paranthetically) quote the American commander as stating over 70 T-72s were destroyed.

62 posted on 03/23/2003 8:11 PM PST by Spruce
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[madison46]

thnx!

[madison46]

The reporter did (paranthetically) quote the American commander as stating over 70 T-72s were destroyed. I don't remember it that way. I believe they went out to attack a formation of 70 tanks, not that 70 were destroyed. Of course, I'd be perfectly happy to be proven totally wrong.

thats the way I remember it

[denydenydeny]

To: CrimeOf73

As I posted earlier, I caught the tail-end of this piece. The reporter is embedded with the 3ID. I know that I heard the reporter quote the commander as saying 70 T-72s where destroyed. This was not just a squadron of Apaches going in alone. It was a combined-arms engagement. Unfortunately the reporters do not understand, AT ALL, what they are witnessing. That is a HUGE problem.
These stupid friggin talking-heads are truly shocked and awed. They are panicking and blustering.


200 posted on 03/23/2003 8:54 PM PST by Spruce
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[geopyg]

I think it was that same report where the guy (Captain or higher?) said they had encountered resistance and "engaged" them. Estimated 40-60 "dis-mounted" enemy were killed. Reporter asked about our damage. "No casualties - no injuries". I actually DO feel sorry for these Iraqi guys - to a degree. (Until they pretend to surrender and then start firing, or in civilian clothes attack, or execute our POW's).

[infowarrior]

What happened top the FAE fan club...

That is essentially what MOAB is, an FAE (super-large economy size)...

the infowarrior

[ChiefKujo]

Viewing the markings and knowing a few things about helicopters I've made the following observations...

The aircraft was an AH-64D Longbow from B Company, 1-227 Attack Helicopter Battalion, Ft. Hood Texas.


This aircraft had a fire control radar and an empty left-inboard wingstore. An empty wingstore inboard on one side, in conjuction with the weapons loading (one outboard rocket pod and an inboard Hellfire rack on right side, and one outboard Hellfire rack on the left side) indicate that the aircraft was originally carrying an auxillary fuel tank on the left inboard wingstore and was subsequently jettisoned prior to the landing (unless ripped off during the crash sequence)

Due to the lack of visible damage, this is an indication of a single engine failure at low-speed/low-altitude due to either mechanical, operator error, or as the result of taking fire.

1-227 (1st Attack) is attached to 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment (V-Corps, Germany) for this operation.

Pilot helmets and kneeboards on the ground indicate they are captured, as they would keep their helmets on for self-extraction and retain all classified info (kneeboards) with them.

ChiefKujo

[Theophilus]

You're right!

I didn't know those petal doors could open in flight. Still I understand that the MOAB is dropped by the C130. I'd like to see a C5 drop. I thought cargo was loaded from the nose!?!?!?

[pfflier]

I can't disagree that our country has shown disunity. I can't disagree with much that you said, but I expect our military planners to give the grunts every break thay can.

Softening entrenched Iraqis with airpower is pretty rudimentary prep stuff.

[hobbes1]

And using Apaches to Draw them Out for calculation of a Bombing run makes sense, You would need to present a Big Threat to force them to show their hands...

[freepersup]

Nice find- The C-5 can be loaded either from the nose or tail.

Maximum payload capacities

C-5.. 270,000 lbs.
C-17. 170,900 lbs.
C-141 .68,725 lbs.
C-130 .46,812 lbs.

Air drop payload capacities are less than the maximum payload capacities.

[mikegi]

thats the way I remember it

There's a little more detail in the latest version of the story on cnn.com (excerpts):

=====================================================

Most pilots said they were unable to achieve the objectives of the mission -- to hit the Republican Guard armored brigade, knock out its tanks and pierce its artillery. They spent a few hours in the air defending themselves and trying to get out of the area.

The attack force did not expect such strong resistance from what they thought were mostly civilian areas, Penhaul reported.

...

One pilot described the situation as "a hornet's nest," as small arms fire and anti-aircraft fire came from "all sides."

Most pilots said they sustained 15 to 20 rounds.

One pilot said his helicopter was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade, which took out one of the engines, Penhaul reported.

[finnman69]

Where in this report does it cover the dozens of Iraqi tanks and APCs that are without a doubt smoking hulks right now?

[SierraWasp]

"I can't disagree that our country has shown disunity."

This country isn't disunited! It's being systematically SMITTEN with doubts and a concerted effort by all the little "Walter Chronkites" in a leftist Hollywood driven media, determined to make this another Vietnam!!!

It's even SMITTEN our politics, seeming to require slogans such as "Compassionate Conservative," "A New Tone in Washington," etc. The leftists in Congress and on our coastal cities ARE TONE DEAF!!!

They DO NOT want America, and especially this administration to be the world's leader! They are desperate to SMITE America with GUILT & DOUBT!!! We cannot let this stand!!!

[holdmuhbeer]

Don't do the enemy's psy-ops for him. This is ridiculous

Agreed, some of these folks are unbelievable.

[drjoe]

"Their own television reporter said that 70 tanks were killed, but they omitted that from the print story.

I didn't hear that. I heard we were beaten back...what gives in this story?? "

Of course we were 'beaten' back. There weren't any more targets left!

[madison46]

Thanks for update. If you ask me, this is a MAJOR deep strike attempt and shows the sorry state of media..especially CNN...but hey, at least CNN reported on it. Not a single other network I find has it OTHER than reporting an apache down...ghee, ya think they could WONDER WHY it is down that close to Baghdad OR wonder if the 40+ apache attack mentioned by Franks were tied together???? NOooooooo.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this was a major and large scale strike and wish somebody, anybody would inquire...

;-) thanks for the update