Mutual Incomprehension: A clash of civilizations.

National Review Online ^ | March 19, 2003 | John Derbyshire

[MadIvan]

Thanks for the projection, Ives but, not to worry, I never drink or drug or smoke -- or lend my arse to other blokes.

By this remark, you prove your further detachment from reality.

All of which is why, of course, I cannot, like that poor psychopathologically-projecting-pommy kiwiwannabe hiding out, out there, be a kiwi. Or, come to that, a EURO-peon!

Incoherent and inane.

And on a more serious note, Dear Ivan, if I can be proven wrong on anything and everything I have ever and/or will ever observe that might be considered to be to Britain's detriment, I will be the first to celebrate with you!

I already listed the ways in which you have been proven wrong. It's not my fault you have neither the grace, nor the sense to admit it.

[PS: Sorry to have been off the air these past couple of days, there is a war on out here that has occupied all of my time]

Not that you're fighting in it, or contributing anything useful except insulting "your beloved Fraternal Republic's" allies.

You've gone too far, Brian.

Ivan

[Brian Allen]

<< ..... for you to admit you are wrong would take character ..... >>

Thank you, spitz, for the ongoing and fascinating psychopathologically-projected look into the black hole that has supplanted whatever your "character" ever was.

As for me, anyone with half a brain long ago noticed that [1] my life is not conducted as if I am but a contestant in a popularity contest and that [2] I am very much aware that my reputation is but what people like you feel about me.

My Character, on the other hand, is what God and I KNOW about me -- and is in very Good Hands! I am a Good Man being Made Better!

As for admitting I am wrong? I love it! How else shall I continue to learn?

Cordially -- Brian

[MadIvan]

My Character, on the other hand, is what God and I KNOW about me -- and is in very Good Hands! I am a Good Man being Made Better!

Just a heads up, people are noticing your behaviour Brian. Your vitriol against America's closest ally, one that is shedding blood alongside you, is not going unnoticed.

To use an American phrase, "take a chill pill".

Ivan

[MHGinTN]

Best to push the ignore button when faced with incoherent, Alenskyesque bilge, my British friend. Brian long ago opened his mouth and proved what many suspected ... no need to bother with the dolt.

[TheFilter]

"we can hardly imagine the situation in Britain, where the BBC — far the most important source of news and comment for most people — is staffed entirely by members of the hard-Left lumpen-intelligentsia"

Not all of 'em.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2868135.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2775105.stm

[MadIvan]

Brian:

I have every confidence you will be banned. What you launched into is sheer slander.

Ivan

[Southack]

I'm not even saying that the author has a point, but in the event that two cultures don't understand each other, the burden is on the militarily *weaker* culture to not provoke the mightier one.

[Fzob]

bump for later

[Brian Allen]

Hi Ives

Slander? How could that be? Surely no-one identifies with my "inane" and "incoherent" and broad generalizations?

Warm regards -- Brian

[MadIvan]

Brian:

You are less subtle, and clever, than you think.

Ivan

[Brian Allen]

<< You are less subtle and clever than you think. >>

Be that as it may, Dear Ives, [And I claim neither cleverness nor subtlety, by the way] I avoid being hypocritical.

I have reckoned for the four and a half years since you joined US, Dear Ivan, that it is a darned shame that you cannot get it that this place is not about me, is not about you -- and is not Brit-centric.

And it is especially a darned shame that you so shamelessly insult and libel those, me included, [As you first did in 1998 within one month your joining FReeRepublic] who ever dare to point out that your ego-driven Brit-centricism is just plain silly. Your posts often seems to be given to intemperateness and to be those of a shameless, insult slinging and often-effectively-libelous, anonymous, bully. Perhaps if you typed less quickly you would have better manners?

Considering the many awful ways in Our Nation's History it has been adversly impacted by our relationship with yours, We Americans love you guys more than enough -- but neither THE world nor, especially, Our American World, centers on Britain.

And that and that alone is what has ever motivated me to jump on some of your more pathetic posturings.

Now you ARE a very much quicker typer than me, are therefore very much more at home in this medium than I am and, judging by the hours you spend online, don't seem to have a Real Job, so you are easily able to outmanouver me in this rather silly medium, especially with those who believe that anything you or I post here will ever have any import beyond that you and your ilk, among whom you have a little populist's following, put on it!

But nothing you will ever sit typing away at will ever change the fact that once-great Britain is just that.

Once great.

But please don't take it personally.

Best ones, Ives -- Brian

[MadIvan]

Brian:

I defend my country; I happen to love my country, and you have a very bad habit of slandering it without anything to justify your biases apart from your own vitriol, and God knows where it comes from.

That is my issue with you. That is the only sticking point so far as I am concerned: you obviously define your patriotism in terms of defining other countries downward. I begrudge no American love of their country; what I object to from you is not only do you not begrudge me mine, you launch vicious, unprovoked and unjustified attacks on my country. And when I defend or praise my country, you accuse me of egotism.

And here I stand. When you're outrageous, I will say so. I realise this is an enormous source of frustration for you, but this is how it is.

As for me not having a "real job". Thanks, yes, I am unemployed. I am sure that you spotted that somewhere as I've said it on a couple of occasions. Your attempt to rub salt in the wound is not worthy of a response; it speaks for itself. It speaks of what kind of person you are that you would make such a remark. It speaks even more that you are not ashamed.

Ivan

[Publius6961]

Stupid article.
Bottom line: when a criminal mugger is beating on me the thing furthest from my mind is "comprehending" him, his motivation, his culture or his cat.
First order of business... kill the S.O.B.

[aquila48]

The narrowness of viewpoint expressed in their media. Centuries of state-sanctioned priesthoods and despotic bureaucracy have left other nations with a deferential attitude to bookish pontificators that America just does not know. As much as we complain of the leftist bias in our media, we can hardly imagine the situation in Britain, where the BBC — far the most important source of news and comment for most people — is staffed entirely by members of the hard-Left lumpen-intelligentsia, people who, to my certain knowledge (I am friends with some of them) were admirers of the Soviet Union down to the hour of its collapse. In France and Germany things are even worse. There is essentially no conservative movement in these countries, nor in any country but the U.S. There are no Second Amendment lobbies, no Club for Growth, no anti-abortion crusaders, no Christian Coalition, no Rush Limbaugh, no Sean Hannity. (I do not say these things don't exist in Britain, France, or Germany. I do say that they have no political influence whatsoever.) Because of the lack of alternative voices, the effect of political correctness on these countries has been far more dire than in the U.S. In England last November, a journalist was locked up in jail for telling a pro-fox-hunting rally that country people should have the same rights as black people, Muslims, and homosexuals. Unrestrained by any constitutional protection for free speech, the ruling elites in these countries are wielding p.c. as a club to smash all dissent from approved state doctrines, all resistance to state schemes of social engineering. No voices are heard in Europe now but the voices of the Leftist clerisy who control all the media outlets. These people are all anti-American. (In France and Italy, they are not infrequently actual Communist-party members — yes, Communism is alive and well in Europe.) It is not surprising that the ordinary people of these countries, bathed as they are in this flood of lies from morning till night, are suspicious of us. And this is only to speak of nations that have some decently long tradition of consensual democracy. Russia? China? Turkey? Fugeddaboutit.

To me this should have been at the top of the list. With the media so controlled by the left, the left is in complete control of the masses. This is going to be an incredibly tough and long fight. We thought we had vanquished communism, but it's alive and well - they've come through the back door!! And they have a strong foothold even here in the US.

WILL WE HAVE THE CONFIDENCE AND STAMINA TO FIGHT BACK??

[Brian Allen]

<< ..... Your attempt to rub salt in the wound is not worthy of a response; it speaks for itself. It speaks of what kind of person you are that you would make such a remark. It speaks even more that you are not ashamed. >>

Dear Ives

Your presumption is showing. I had no idea about that and no intention to "rub salt in" any wound you may have suffered. I am sorry if that is what I unintentionally did.

I apologize!

But I must add that one of the aspects of your and my bouncing off each other, these past years or so, is demonstrated in the gratuitous insults that immediately descend from the false premise that you created from your incorrect assumption.

Your remark about the outrageousness of some of my comments is very true, however -- and I will do you the courtesy during this time of war of curtailing them. Don't worry, I am aware of the presence in the Gulf of Britain's Forces, many of whom I have worked with for years. I have been saddened by the losses they have suffered and I wish them all well.

I also note all of the rest of your remarks and respect them too. As I have mentioned to you many times before I am not at all "anti-British." I have no "vitriol," only an aversion to false claims, pompousity, a condescending attitude to My America -- and gratuitous insult.

At the risk of boring you I will remind you that I have lived in England and loved it very much indeed. As a child I was extremely proud of the fact that the map of the world was colored red pretty much from one end to the other and from top to bottom. True, that was before I began travelling and working around the world [Effectively 650 times around -- and counting] and seeing the effect of the end of Empire on the poor bastards impacted by it -- but I loved it back when. And my son lives in England and is in London right at this minute.

And when I next come to visit him I would love to meet you and visit for a bit and bury the hatchet. I will take the chance that you will punch me in the nose as I belive you may have threatened a time or two -- and will bet you we part mates.

Meantime, for statrters, thank you for your passion -- and your Nation for its support.

Best ones -- Brian