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To: x
Excuse me, but when folks like Sam Francis and Paul Craig Roberts delve into racialism, and others who are demanding action on immigration DON'T take them out to the woodshed, it renders the issue radioactive.

When these folks cross certain lines like delving into racialism, or implying that people are placing another country's interests above that of the USA, and others do not challenge them on that, their silence on that issue is going to be taken as consent or agreement with the statements being made.

Take a look at the quotes being cited. Ask yourself if you would want to be associated with those who make such quotes. I, for one, do not. Nor do most conservatives, particularly those who have to run for office and convince people to vote for them as opposed to just dealing with the minor pressure of putting out a column.

Take a look at two of the e-mails David Frum got, and ask yourself if maybe, there is some merit to their case:
http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/diary032003.asp

This has to be dealt with by conservatives, particularly those that want to have limits on immigration on the table for discussion. If they do not deal with those who are using racialist rhetoric, then this issue is going to be as welcome as a skunk at a picnic.
242 posted on 03/20/2003 12:47:19 PM PST by hchutch ("But tonight we get EVEN!" - Ice-T)
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To: hchutch
I certainly agree that racism should be condemned. But using paleocons as an alibi for inaction on immigration is a red herring.

First of all, there will always be those who express such ideas. If there were no paleocons, there would still be David Duke or Jared Taylor to point to as a justification for inaction. If that scares ordinary people off, it's certainly unfortunate, but one expects writers and ideologists to have more mettle than that. If they felt strongly enough about immigration reform, they would push for it. Indeed, decreasing immigration levels and imposing greater control could be seen as a step to reducing bigotry by reducing immigration to manageable levels if Frum and his peers wanted less immigration. They don't, and it has nothing to do with paleos.

Secondly, it's contradictory to argue that these paleocons have no following or hope of success and then blame such obscure ideologues for the failure to change policy. If they are as insignificant as Frum claims -- and they are -- how can they be blamed for the refusal of others to take action on the issue? When most Americans and most American politicians have never heard of Fleming or Francis, where's the logic in making them responsible for policy.

Third, there's a thin line between what is acceptable and what isn't. National Review itself has had problems on this score, both in earlier articles on civil rights, desegregation and apartheid and in recent articles on Arabs and Europeans. And NR writers like Steve Sailer and John Derbyshire come close to the paleocons attacked by Frum in their racial ideas. Frum can certainly condemn the paleos when they deserve it, but it's not true that his own peers avoid similar reproaches.

I don't have any use for Fleming or Rockwell. I think Francis was and Gottfried is worth reading, though I disagree with much of what they say. What I object to is the odious Frum's attempt to use the current war to promote his own agenda. His self-serving and hypocritical denial of the long silence of his own group on immigration issues is dishonest and particularly worthy of condemnation.

290 posted on 03/20/2003 3:31:15 PM PST by x
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To: hchutch
This has to be dealt with by conservatives, particularly those that want to have limits on immigration on the table for discussion. If they do not deal with those who are using racialist rhetoric, then this issue is going to be as welcome as a skunk at a picnic.

I wonder, though, who defines what constitutes "racialist rhetoric," and who has made the political/moral climate such that certain issues are "as welcome as [skunks] at a picnic?"

It seems to me that these calls to "purge" paleoconservatives just do the work of the liberals for them. The "anti-paleos" (dare I call them "neocons?") seem to take the validity of liberal definitions of "racialism" for granted, or at least they're too fearful to challenge those liberal definitions head-on. I sense liberal influence; they slipped behind conservative lines and told the neos and paleos, "Lets you and him fight!"

302 posted on 03/20/2003 8:50:37 PM PST by Hoppean
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