Unpatriotic Conservatives

National Review Online ^ | 4/7/03 (advance) | David Frum

[Chancellor Palpatine]

"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be, that is, if greatness means anything loftier than money and bombs."
— THOMAS FLEMING, "HARD RIGHT," MARCH 13, 2003

rom the very beginning of the War on Terror, there has been dissent, and as the war has proceeded to Iraq, the dissent has grown more radical and more vociferous. Perhaps that was to be expected. But here is what never could have been: Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."

These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies.

And they are exerting influence. When Richard Perle appeared on Meet the Press on February 23 of this year, Tim Russert asked him, "Can you assure American viewers . . . that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?" Perle rebutted the allegation. But what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Lighten up and let some other views, some other traditions into the public arena.

Not when they consist of deeply and emotionally held beliefs passed down a few generations which are completely untouched by reality, rationality, common sense, or any recollection of who actually started the fight - not to mention the frequently racist and/or anti semitic overtones employed by paleocons.

[Dog Gone]

Some things never change. There was a time when many Americans considered Irish immigration a threat to the country.

And we certainly couldn't let those Italians in. Southern Europeans? Yuck!

[tpaine]

Glad somebody finally said it.
#1 -Chancellor Palpatine-

"Lighten up and let some other views, some other traditions into the public arena."

Not when they consist of deeply and emotionally held beliefs passed down a few generations which are completely untouched by reality, rationality, common sense, or any recollection of who actually started the fight -

How weird.
YOU "started the fight", here at FR. -- And Frum started it with his idiotic namecalling.

not to mention the frequently racist and/or anti semitic overtones employed by paleocons.

And thus you continue it..
-- The fact is there ARE NO
-- "deeply and emotionally held beliefs passed down a few generations which are completely untouched by reality, rationality, common sense" ---
- that divide rational conservatives.

You 'neo'creeps are manufacturing them.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

My favorite stupid and untruthful stereotype of all time - Jewish guys as kids named Stanley or Hymie with thick glasses who can't throw a baseball, don't do sports, don't do manual labor, don't go into the military and don't love the US.

You're a bigger cartoon than the people you're trying to lie about - an FR member for quite a while, but the only thread you can ever post to is this one? Spending a bit of time on other boards perhaps?

[hchutch]

Did Frum manufacture the quotes in Post 314?

Are these the type of quotes you think would go over well in America?

I don't think they are. They make Trent Lott's comments look MILD by comparison.

[tpaine]

not to mention the frequently racist and/or anti semitic overtones employed by paleocons.
-CP-

And thus you continue it..
-- The fact is there ARE NO -- "deeply and emotionally held beliefs passed down a few generations which are completely untouched by reality, rationality, common sense" ---
- that divide rational conservatives.
You 'neo'creeps are manufacturing them.
464 by tpaine

Did Frum manufacture the quotes in Post 314?

They are not the type of quotes that divide rational conservatives. -- They are like Frums conclusions, -- and yours..
You are all a bunch of political vipers, working against the principles of our constitutional free republic.

Are these the type of quotes you think would go over well in America? I don't think they are. They make Trent Lott's comments look MILD by comparison.

So what? There are TENS of thousands of weirdos in this country. -- The 'neo' effort to divide conservatism is lead by a bunch of them, imo.

[hchutch]

So, defending the Old South is rational?

Wishing for the return of Stalin (who probably killed more people than Hitler) is rational?

Accusing people who disagree with you on a foreign policy issue of being "agents of a foreign power" is rational?

You're right, there are lots of weirdos in this country - but I think you'd better look in the mirror to see one if you REALLY think such sentiments are "rational."

[tpaine]

As I said:

They are not the type of quotes that divide ~rational~ conservatives.
-- They are like Frums conclusions, -- and yours..

You are all a bunch of political vipers, working against the principles of our constitutional free republic.

Get some new lines.. You clowns are just repeating your old lies in a hysterical effort to be divisive.

[hchutch]

These quotes ARE NOT what could be considered RATIONAL by any stretch of the imagination.

You are PROVING Frum's case.

[tpaine]

As I've said all along . -- None of these quotes & observations, including those by the neo's, ARE what could be considered RATIONAL by any stretch of the imagination.

Frum has no case, only quotes from weirdos.
- And seeing that he is a weirdo himself, as are his dupes, like you; --
--- we can see this is just another silly political agit-prop attempt to divide conservatives.

[hchutch]

I'm not a dupe. I happen to have seen stuff quite similar to the stuff Frum was slamming. And I think Frum is a lot closer to the mark, and some of the pseudo-conservatives who have been giving conservatism a bad name are getting uncomfortable that they are being called on it.

[Poohbah]

Frum has no case, only quotes from weirdos.

Oh, you've been his prime source, eh?

[MEGoody]

"I'm just defending against slander."

Not quite sure why you got as upset as you have. Perhaps there is some history between the two of you. He said you make some of the same points as made in this article. He didn't say which points or that those points were wrong or bad.

[Protagoras]

You are late to the thread and it's a very old one. The poster lies about me on many threads.

[tpaine]

I'm not a dupe.

In that case, you're admitting to being a disruptor.

I happen to have seen stuff quite similar to the stuff Frum was slamming.

So what? Weirdo quotes are not the issue.

And I think Frum is a lot closer to the mark, and some of the pseudo-conservatives who have been giving conservatism a bad name are getting uncomfortable that they are being called on it.

Big freeking deal. -- Your wild 'thinking', and that of your poohbaa/palpitator cohorts, is the problem here at FR.

[hchutch]

If you REALLY think I am a disruptor and part of the problem at FR, you'd darn well better back that up with actions that would be approproate for a disruptor (like the troll on this thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/889052/posts ), or you'd better take that back.

Can't have it both ways.

[Poohbah]

tpaine, you should really change your nick to msuslov.

[tpaine]

I'm not a dupe.
-hchutch-

In that case, you're admitting to being a disruptor.

Or, -- you'd better take that back.
Can't have it both ways

[tpaine]

Oh poo, bah. -- Get a new act.