Unpatriotic Conservatives

National Review Online ^ | 4/7/03 (advance) | David Frum

[amused]

Wow the battle between neo and paleo cons just went to Def-Con 2.

[iranger]

"I'll let you decide that"

I already have. PJB is the big loser.

"I could care less if Savages comments or opinions differ from Buchanan's. I mean, so what if they do"

I was only trying to see if you agreed that they both cannot be standing for what's right for America if they disagree. One is right and one is wrong when it comes to the dual topics of war & illegals.

"And you need to realize that we have been intentionally, secretly destabilizing nations for many years, supplied bad guys with mean weapons"

Of course we did.

"Why do you think we did things like this?"

Because at the time, it was perceived as being in the best interest of the country by whoever was in power. In some instances it might not have been appropriate, in others it may well have been. Some administrations had atrocious foreign policies, others better. None were perfect, but that is obvious because perfection is not attainable by man, only God.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I guess he hid it well at that point.

[FreeTally]

I find nothing wrong with that statement for it is accurate.

[Joe Hadenuf]

None were perfect, but that is obvious because perfection is not attainable by man, only God.

Well, I'll agree with that. LOL.....

[Chancellor Palpatine]

It goes to Defcon 1 if you review the segment I pulled out and restated in #116. Hehheh....

[sinkspur]

I guess he hid it well at that point.

Well, come to think of it, Bradford always did wear gray suits with a red tie.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Add a few gold buttons and yellow piping, and you've got a whole Confederate uniform.

[The Irishman]

They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine.

Long on rhetoric but short on facts. As a reader of National Review starting in the mid-50s I can report that NR was not an advocate of "conservative ideology" then, though it is now an advocate of neocon ideology. Any similarity in the two is strictly coincidental. Conservatism, as opposed to liberalism, libertarianism, neoconism, was and is non-ideological.

Posted from the other thread on this same Frum article.

[Sangamon Kid]

Whose my boogeyman? I'm sure that amongst these folks one could find people of some influence at the White House and Capitol Hill

Roger Barnett - U.S. Naval War College
Alvin Bernstein - National Defense University
Stephen Cambone - National Defense University
Eliot Cohen - Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University
Devon Gaffney Cross - Donors' Forum for International Affairs
Thomas Donnelly - Project for the New American Century
David Epstein - Office of Secretary of Defense, Net Assessment
David Fautua - Lt. Col., U.S. Army
Dan Goure - Center for Strategic and International Studies
Donald Kagan - Yale University
Fred Kagan - U. S. Military Academy at West Point
Robert Kagan - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Robert Killebrew - Col., USA (Ret.)
William Kristol - The Weekly Standard
Mark Lagon - Senate Foreign Relations Committee
James Lasswell - GAMA Corporation
I. Lewis Libby - Dechert Price & Rhoads
Robert Martinage - Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment
Phil Meilinger - U.S. Naval War College
Mackubin Owens - U.S. Naval War College
Steve Rosen - Harvard University
Gary Schmitt - Project for the New American Century
Abram Shulsky - The RAND Corporation
Michael Vickers - Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment
Barry Watts - Northrop Grumman Corporation
Paul Wolfowitz - Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University
Dov Zakheim - System Planning Corporation

[Sangamon Kid]

Whose my boogeyman? I'm sure that amongst these folks one could find people of some influence at the White House and Capitol Hill

Roger Barnett - U.S. Naval War College
Alvin Bernstein - National Defense University
Stephen Cambone - National Defense University
Eliot Cohen - Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University
Devon Gaffney Cross - Donors' Forum for International Affairs
Thomas Donnelly - Project for the New American Century
David Epstein - Office of Secretary of Defense, Net Assessment
David Fautua - Lt. Col., U.S. Army
Dan Goure - Center for Strategic and International Studies
Donald Kagan - Yale University
Fred Kagan - U. S. Military Academy at West Point
Robert Kagan - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Robert Killebrew - Col., USA (Ret.)
William Kristol - The Weekly Standard
Mark Lagon - Senate Foreign Relations Committee
James Lasswell - GAMA Corporation
I. Lewis Libby - Dechert Price & Rhoads
Robert Martinage - Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment
Phil Meilinger - U.S. Naval War College
Mackubin Owens - U.S. Naval War College
Steve Rosen - Harvard University
Gary Schmitt - Project for the New American Century
Abram Shulsky - The RAND Corporation
Michael Vickers - Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment
Barry Watts - Northrop Grumman Corporation
Paul Wolfowitz - Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University
Dov Zakheim - System Planning Corporation

[amused]

It goes to Defcon 1 if you review the segment I pulled out and restated in #116. Hehheh....

Now you've gone and done it. No more proxy fights, the cold war is over.

[wardaddy]

I fear that not all of us fit so nicely into the Paleo or Neo label that you and Poohbah and others enjoy tossing about.

I'm hard right enough culturally to make you nervous. I do use the term JBT when I feel it's appropriate. I am militantly anti-infanticide. I'm defensive about South bashing.

But,I'm also a hegemon with regards to American military power and feel we should preemptively crush our enemies before they have the chance to hit us again. I include their enablers in that "hit list".

I love Israel and support them 110%....and my Christianity has nothing to do with that....it has nothing to do with my stance on abortion either.

I believe in free trade unless our partner is screwing us.

I am in favor of restricted immigration simply because I do not feel we can absorb "everybody" nor do I wish to see MY CULTURE further diluted....I know you hate that part...lol

That's just some highlights of my views...

Am I a Paleo-Neo-Paleo-SemiNeo-SemiPaleo-Organic-Yellow Dog Conservative or what?

LOL....labeling wars between center to right of center folks is a messy business.

BTW...I was a broken glass Bush supporter....I'm probably 85% in favor of what he's done so far. I'm sorry he signed CFR, I think he's dropping the ball on illegal aliens, and I think his African AIDS initiative while admirable is Quixotic....I also thought he orchestrated Lotts purge handily but I took issue with utilizing buckling to PC forces in order to do it...not that I like Lott(who did?)


So....what about the rest of us who don't fall into the Neo label like you which seems to be defined by being a social issue moderate and the isolationist Buchanan rightwing which seems to be defined by you as being racist or anti-Jewish. There is a lot of room in between CP.

It's sad that the only thing all folks who consider themselves conservatives can agree on 100% of the time are tax cuts...lol...human nature I guess...show me my money!

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The thing is that when it comes to the paleos, they've lost the mother of all battles before they stepped on the field.

There are very few of them, and for a time, they did get their way on some policy issues because they were able to mask their numerical inferiority with volume. Now, people in the know have a good grip on the numbers of them.

[EternalVigilance]

Well spoken.

[NeoCaveman]

Plus Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Rice. Oh the horror. We should all long for the days when America didn't defend herself or strike back at terror aka the 1990's, shouldn't we.

[Poohbah]

In other words, you sound reasonably sane.

Frum wasn't talking about you.

[eskimo]

Ok, show me where Buchanan wrote anything resembling your allegation that we got what we deserved on 9/11. Seems like some folks just can't stand the fact he won't get meekly in line and grovel in front of the powers that be like other alleged objective journalists. To lump a patriot like him with those other dimbulbs just shows true ignorance.

It certainly appears to be evident that this "new conservative" coalition of partially reformed liberals and opportunistic semi-conservatives who have no problem working liberal scams for political profit, has little use for facts and will rely on emotional slight-of-hand.

[amused]

The thing is that when it comes to the paleos, they've lost the mother of all battles before they stepped on the field. There are very few of them, and for a time, they did get their way on some policy issues because they were able to mask their numerical inferiority with volume. Now, people in the know have a good grip on the numbers of them.

True enough. Strange how the right seems to becoming more mainstream and the left is drifting ever farther towards its extreme.

[1rudeboy]

Nice shot.