Ecstasy 'makes users depressed for life'

Independent (U.K.) ^ | 16 March 2003 | Sophie Goodchild and Kat Johnson

[AntiGuv]

What is the evidence that those already predisposed to depression aren't (a) more likely to enter the 'rave' subculture; and (b) more likely to experiment with illicit drugs?

[walden]

I did a lot of study on it and talking to friends last year when I became concerned that my daughter was hanging out with the wrong people. There is a lot of the brain scan evidence-- the changes are visible. As to the long-term effects? Hard to know. I know this is just one small anecdote, but a friend of a friend of mine said that she only took it once, but felt that it had made permanent changes to her personality. Scary.

[AntiGuv]

I haven't any doubt there are identifiable brain chemistry changes consequent to ecstasy use, my objection involves the allegation that: Ecstasy 'makes users depressed for life'. By comparison, a recent study of former cocaine users found discernible (though minor) after-effects one year after the cessation of use, while a comparable study found no meaningful effects three years after cessation. This article doesn't provide sufficient detail for any conclusive interpretation, but the statement that even one or two uses of ecstasy leads to lifelong depression seems extremely ill-supported, in my view.

[walden]

I don't think they meant life-long depression, just a greater susceptibility to depression for life.

[metesky]

Heartbreak Hotel

[Timesink]

I don't think they meant life-long depression, just a greater susceptibility to depression for life.

No, I think they really did mean life-long depression. This particular study might be new, but it's nowhere near the first study that has stongly indicated the possibility that X just completely annihilates serotonin manufacturing in the brain. The hypothesis is that it sort of "breaks open the serotonin flood dam" in the brain; you get completely flooded for 18-24 hours (or however long the pills are good for these days; I know they're not the same as they were 15-20 years ago), but then the lake is gone and the dam's been vaporized.

The only thing I wonder is how much we can trust the researchers, since the British government has desperately been trying to "prove" that Ecstasy is about the most dangerous pill on the planet for years and years. If it wasn't for that, I'd have little trouble at all accepting this hypothesis as probably true. I'm sure never going near an Ecstacy pill.

[eno_]

Ms. Taurah added that findings supported evidence from animal studies suggesting that even small doses of ecstasy destroyed brain neurons that produced the important chemical messenger serotonin, which is closely linked to mood. Seven years after the initial damage there was no sign of the neurons repairing themselves.

If the "researcher" really said that and was not misquoted, I would have some doubts. I think she is looking for the pineal gland, not neurons.

[GOP_Raider]

No way. Democrats are a bigger source of depression in this country.

[THEUPMAN]

but a friend of a friend of mine said
.... How can you argue with that
How big was the gov. grant that you got for that "study"?

[Mamzelle]

Yes, it's hard to tell where the "indicator" stops and the "cause" begins.

[robertpaulsen]

"All it did was make me nervous and anxious"

So, it would be OK with you if the government advertised that Ecstasy makes users "nervous and anxious"? And the young people would believe that?

[fnord]

Academics are now warning that taking only one or two pills can lead to lasting depression.

Bullhockey! It might be a bad drug to use recreationally, but this kind of 'Killer Weed' overhyping doesn't illustrate that. Ahh, the flatulent intellectualism of the WOsD.

[PoisedWoman]

study stongly indicated the possibility that X just completely annihilates serotonin manufacturing in the brain. The hypothesis is that it sort of "breaks open the serotonin flood dam" in the brain; you get completely flooded for 18-24 hours (or however long the pills are good for these days; I know they're not the same as they were 15-20 years ago), but then the lake is gone and the dam's been vaporized.

Very scary. Do you have a source for that study? Also, do you have any idea whether LSD would have the same or similar effect on serotonin? LSD certainly changed people's lives forever, even one dose.

[stands2reason]

What?

[stands2reason]

Ms. Taurah added that findings supported evidence from animal studies suggesting that even small doses of ecstasy destroyed brain neurons that produced the important chemical messenger serotonin, which is closely linked to mood. Seven years after the initial damage there was no sign of the neurons repairing themselves.

Damn, damn, damn.... That is not good...

[Sandy]

do you have any idea whether LSD would have the same or similar effect on serotonin?

LSD doesn't have the same or even a similar effect. LSD binds to serotonin receptors. Ecstasy doesn't bind to receptors; it simply causes serotonin (a lot) to be released into the synapse. Two completely different mechanisms of action.

Some really good easy-to-follow info here: This Is Your Brain On Ecstasy (An MDMA Neurochemistry Slideshow)

[MrLeRoy]

There is a lot of the brain scan evidence-- the changes are visible.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=286213:

At the centre of the controversy are brain scans published in 1998 apparently showing that ecstasy destroys nerve cells involved in the production and transport of serotonin, a vital brain chemical involved in memory, sleep, sex, appetite and, primarily, mood. The scans used radioactive tagging to highlight the number of those nerve cells: those for non-users showed large "bright" regions but those of ecstasy users showed fewer. The pictures were used in anti-drugs advertising, and research findings used to underpin stiffer penalties for ecstasy use.

In an accompanying editorial today, the magazine says: "Our investigation suggests the experiments are so irretrievably flawed that the scientific community risks haemorrhaging credibility if it continues to let them inform public policy."

Two independent experts told New Scientist there was a key flaw a " the way brains reacted to this kind of scan, known as PET, varied enormously with or without ecstasy. Some "healthy" brains glowed up to 40 times brighter than others, and even a number of ecstasy users' brains outshone ecstasy-free brains by factors of 10 or more.

Stephen Kish, a neuropathologist at the Centre for Addiction and Health, Toronto, told the magazine: "There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users. And if anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain damage, it's impossible to get one from these papers."