Iraq's Rebuke to the NRA

Slate.com ^ | 03/14/2003 | Timothy Noah

[Pitchfork]

In the March 11 New York Times, Neil MacFarquhar notes in passing, "Most Iraqi households own at least one gun." This comes as a shock to those of us who've been hearing for years from the gun lobby that widespread firearms ownership is necessary to prevent the United States from becoming a police state. Here, via the National Rifle Association's Web site, is Bill Pryor, attorney general of Alabama, decrying the "war on guns": "In a republic that promotes a free society, as opposed to a police state, one of the basic organizing principles is that individuals have a right of self-defense and a right to acquire the means for that defense." The basic Jeffersonian idea is that you never know when you'll need to organize a militia against your government. In director John Milius' camp Cold War classic Red Dawn, Russians and Nicaraguan commies take over the United States in part by throwing gun owners in jail. In one memorable scene, the camera pans from a bumper sticker that says "You'll Take My Gun Away When You Pry It From My Cold, Dead Fingers" to a Russian soldier prying a gun from the car owner's … you get the idea.

The obvious question raised by MacFarquhar's piece is how Iraq got to be, and remains, one of the world's most repressive police states when just about everyone is packing heat. Chatterbox invites gun advocates (and Iraq experts) to e-mail (to chatterbox@slate.com) plausible reasons. The best of these will be examined in a follow-up item.

[Pitchfork]

I always thought the "we need guns to defend ourselves from the government" argument was a load of nonsense and a refuge for those who wanted to avoid a cost-benefit discussion centered on the real issues of crime and violence. In fact, the whole "no registration" position is based on this canard--keeping the government in the dark regarding personal gun ownership is perceived to be the only way to limit its over-reaching power. Obviously that isn't the case in Iraq.

Since I can think of no logical opposition to gun registration from a pure crime/self-defense perspective.

[jwalsh07]

And this balderdash convinces you that your mindless, unconstitutional, statist position is correct?

There is an additional requirement to possessing and knowing how to use your firearms and that is the balls to do so if the need ever arises. You will find that Americans gun owners are not sheep pal.

[supercat]

What confirmation is there that most people in Iraq have at least one functional weapon, and ammunition for it? Sure the media like to show Iraqis and Palestinians shooting AK's into the air, but that doesn't mean most people have such weapons or ammo to burn in them.

[dighton]

Someone desperately wants attention.

[supercat]

Since I can think of no logical opposition to gun registration from a pure crime/self-defense perspective.

True/false quiz:

1. Criminals would like to have a list of who's armed with what, so they know which houses to target when occupied and which houses to target when empty.
2. It would be better for everyone else if criminals did not have such information.
3. There are no corrupt people in government who would share such information with criminals.

Three simple questions. Care to answer them?

[Puppage]

"Most Iraqi households own at least one gun."

Sorry, I ain't buy'n it. Saddam has oppressed the Iraqi people for more than 20 years.....if they are ALLOWED to have guns, it is MOST definately WITHOUT bullets.

Do you really think Saddam would furnish guns WITH ammo to the very people who he's viciously oppressed for so long. In essence giving them the "chance", however remotely, to overthrow, or kill him?

[Puppage]

Ya beat me to it.

[Jhoffa_]

You Go Baby!

Yeah!

[EternalVigilance]

Since I can think of no logical opposition to gun registration from a pure crime/self-defense perspective.

That's because you have a basic misunderstanding of what the Second Amendment is all about, and what the original intent of the Framers was.

It had nary a thing to do with either crime or hunting, fundamentally. It had to do with preserving freedom.

And if you really believe that the Iraqi people generally are armed, you're really gullible.

I guess you didn't read the stories just today about Iraqi troops ransacking an entire city in an attempt to find and confiscate every weapon they could. Followed by arrest for anyone who had one, by the way. They also were taking away any young man they thought might be useful to draft into their services.

[geopyg]

I can believe that Iraqi's of good standing in Saddam's party have weapons, and I imagine that the party knows who has what. Hopefully the U.S. military will use that to their advantage just like Hitler did in Norway. First thing you do is go down to the town courthouse (or equivilant), get the gun registrations, and go round up the guns (and people if still deemed a threat).

[Atlas Sneezed]

Bang

[Jhoffa_]

Someone hasn't read the Constitution..

Someone, doesn't know it's not FEDGOV's business to be regestering guns.

Also, "someone" just did about the worst thing you can possibly do on FR. Put forth an Unconstitutional, Anti-gun argument based on a suggestion that keeping government "in the dark" regarding personal gun ownership is a bad thing..

Oh nomex, why hast thou forsaken me?

[Spruce]

The author of this piece is trying to prove “the right to bear arms” is invalid. The misuse of false data renders the whole effort “swirling-in-the-bowl”.

[Woahhs]

Yeah, I saw a story the other night on a foxnews. Of course I also noted the only stock carried by the Iraqi gun dealer consisted of ancient shotguns and pistols. Oh...magazines too. They just about lined the walls with magazines.

[Jagdgewehr]

Obviously that isn't the case in Iraq.

Obviously?

You must got Pitchfork tines stuck in your eyes and ears.

[Jhoffa_]

Ping?

[Long Cut]

Oh, and let us not forget that "Someone", having been registered here for over a year and a half, has but this ONE post to his/her name. And has apparently departed.

Seems a LOT of "single posters" signed up around the middle of October, 2001.

This imbecile is ZOT bait, for sure.

[Jhoffa_]

Oh my... It's a mole.

For shame..

[Khepera]

I see this as good news. We will not have to airdrop thousands of cheap guns into the hands of civilians like we did during world war two in france and germany.

[supercat]

Oh...magazines too. They just about lined the walls with magazines.

What sort?