Senate passes Partial Birth abortion ban

Fox News website ^ | 3/13/03 | Fox News

[CCWoody]

Here's a thought: Why don't you actually tell us all where inalienable rights come from. Then, we might actually perceive you as having a modicum of intelligence.

Here's a hint: Saying "(And, my rights were secured by the bravery of men and women who fought for those rights...)" just doesn't get you there. The fact that your rights were secured by the blood of others leaves you indebted to them, but it still doesn't explain where those rights originated.

Back to the drawing board sparkey!

[MHGinTN]

Just a note, to ease your concern. ... Now, as one of many women who had an abortion under the nebulous "life and health of the mother" exemptions in the Colorado law in 1972, I know that life of the mother can be construed all types of ways. If the woman threatens suicide unless the pregnancy is ended (baby is killed) is one. The word health is not included in the exception clause of this bill. Additionally, the 'procedure' is so tightly described that if the infant is partially delivered 'for the purpose of killing the baby' that behavior is proscribed, banned, illegal, criminal. Contrary to what the societal engineers and leftist democrats are claiming, this bill is so well worded, it will withstand SCOTUS chllenges. Additionall, it is the beginning of the legislature of the nation addressing the right to Life, as opposed to a judicial fiat from an activist court, ruling unconstitutionally resulting in the slaughter of millions. There is a long way to go yet.

[pittsburgh gop guy]

"Many of the vot(e)s for failure came from the NorthEast"

Yeah, but but both Senators from Cali, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, Hawaii, and Washington voted the wrong way - as did Wyden from Oregon. So, the Northeast is not the only region to blame. And hey, Specter voted the right way (Thank you TOOMEY!)

And you have to admire the courage of Biden, Kerry and Edwards. WHAT SPINELESS WEASELS!!!!!

[Chad Fairbanks]

Blow me. I didn't come on this thread to discuss religion, nor to engage in a religious flamewar... Bottom line, is allegedly our 'inalienable' rights come from God... Happy now???

[MHGinTN]

clinton and Schumer both voted against the ban on Partial Birth Infanticide. Hatellary Rodhamster stood with the blood-drenched California Senators and Dungheap Harkin.

[CCWoody]

Blow me.... Happy now??? ~ Chad Fairbanks.

Where exactly do you wish to be blown--as a human shield for Iraq perhaps. I hear right now that they are getting booted because they are being placed at critical sites, where we will actually drop bombs instead of the hospitals where the humans shield hoped to stay safe. Better hurry!

Woody.

See, guys, I'm evidently an equal opportunity irritant. I do not discriminate against any religious affiliation, even among those who claim to know what only God can know.

[Chad Fairbanks]

You and your friends have a problem because we all agree that Partial Birth Abortion is wrong? Or is it your problem that I believe it's wrong? Which is it?

[CCWoody]

Blow me.... Happy now??? ~ Chad Fairbanks.

I think you proved to all of us that you are incapable of intelligent conversation when you uttered these famous words.

Woody.

[MHGinTN]

Let's lay off of Chad. I know 'devout' atheists who are totally against abortion. Common sense can also lead one to be foursquare against the slaughter of our posterity. Sadly, things like hillary and catbox appear to have lost even that source for reasoning.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Sad thing is, I'm NOT an athiest... just someone who prefers to keep my relationship with God personal, rather than forcing it on those around me.... THAT is my crime...

[Chad Fairbanks]

I think you proved to all of us that you are incapable of intelligent conversation when you uttered these famous words.

I'm capable of it, but it requires conversing with someone who is ALSO intelligent... Deal with it.

[grania]

I just sent an email to the address you gave me, thanking Senator Frist for keeping his promise to us to bring that vote up ASAP.

This really means a lot. I'm pro-life, and just cannot accept there is any rational justification for killing babies while they are being delivered. Our country has no claim to moral leadership until there are laws in place condemning the procedure.

[wardaddy]

It's a good day. I see Landrieu woke up.

Leiberman?...how does he reconcile this with his facade of Jewish piety? Sad.

Collins and Snowe....awful.

Biden, Kerrey, and Edwards....wussies.

[grania]

Every Catholic on that "Nay" list should be excommunicated by the Vatican,...forget the local political messes in the Catholic Church.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Matchett-PI]

"So, what you are saying is, essentially, that if you were not a christian, you'd support killing babies? Do I have that right?"

No.

And please quote what I wrote that caused you to infer such a thing and I will re-word it.

You continued: "(And, my rights were secured by the bravery of men and women who fought for those rights...)"

Look. I thought you wanted to drop the subject.

And what you wrote doesn't even answer the question that you feared I would ask you again, ie: "Where do your rights come from?"

Are you embarrassed that you disagree with the Framers of the Constitution (since you continue to go out of your way to avoid answering the question)?

The argument in the Constitution is this: Men have rights qua man--in other words, as men. Men qua men. Men in the capacity of being a human have particular rights.

These rights are transcendent rights.

They are not rights that are given or taken away by government, but are rights that come from God. Therefore, government must acknowledge them.

So, the rights you speak of that were SECURED (by our armed forces), are merely the transcendent (God-given) rights that our government recognizes as belonging to all human beings. End of story.

You continued: "So, basically what it boils down to is that we both disagree with abortion, but because I dont' wrap it in Biblical Phraseology, you think you are better...".

HUH???? I think I am better???? How did *I* get to be the subject????

Don't you know that you have no legitimate argument once you attribute motives and change the subject from issues to personalities?

[Chad Fairbanks]

All I posted was, 'Partial Birth Abortion is murder.' and that I was happy this passed... You launch into some spiel about religion, which I was not here to discuss and was totally irrelevent to my post...

Now you want to talk about the framer's intent? Are you saying that we should be just like the founders and only allow White male Adults to enjoy the God-given inalienable rights? If so, you are a sick sick man...

[Dianna]

Contrary to what the societal engineers and leftist democrats are claiming, this bill is so well worded, it will withstand SCOTUS chllenges.

Thanks for this info. I had wondered about that.

[Matchett-PI]

"Sad thing is, I'm NOT an athiest... just someone who prefers to keep my relationship with God personal, rather than forcing it on those around me" ~ Chad Fairbanks

Lucky for you that America's Founders believed what they did about where men's rights come from, because they made sure that as long as we uphold and defend the Constitution, there will be no way anyone will be able to gain enough power to enforce their religious beliefs on anyone else.

"In terms of population alone, a high percentage of the pre-revolutionary American colonies were of Puritan-Calvinist background. There were around three million persons in the thirteen original colonies by 1776, and perhaps as many as two-thirds of these came from some kind of Calvinist or Puritan connection" (Douglas F. Kelly, The Emergence of Liberty in the Modern World — (Phillipsburg, NJ: P&R Publishing, 1992), p. 120.

The U.S. Constitution is a Calvinist's document through and through.

They made sure that in America, one man’s liberty will not depend upon another man’s (religious) conscience (as in Europe)!

Dr. George Bancroft, arguably the most prominent American historian of the 19th century — and not a Calvinist — stated:

"He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of he origen of American liberty"

The 55 Framers (from North to South):

John Langdon, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nicholas Gilman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Elbridge Gerry, Episcoplian (Calvinist)
Rufus King, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Caleb Strong, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nathaniel Gorham, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Roger Sherman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Oliver Ellsworth, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Alexander Hamilton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Lansing, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
William Patterson, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
William Livingston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jonathan Dayton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
David Brearly, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Churchill Houston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Benjamin Franklin, Christian in his youth, Deist in later years, then back to his Puritan background in his old age (his June 28, 1787 prayer at the Constitutional Convention was from no "Deist")
Robert Morris, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
James Wilson, probably a Deist
Gouverneur Morris, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas Mifflin, Lutheran (Calvinist-lite)
George Clymer, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas FitzSimmons, Roman Catholic
Jared Ingersoll, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
John Dickinson, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Read, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Richard Bassett, Methodist
Gunning Bedford, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jacob Broom, Lutheran
Luther Martin, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Daniel Carroll, Roman Catholic
John Francis Mercer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McHenry, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Daniel of St Thomas Jennifer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Washington, Episcopalian (Calvinist; no, he was not a deist)
James Madison, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Mason, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Edmund Jennings Randolph, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James Blair, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McClung, ?
George Wythe, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Richardson Davie, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Hugh Williamson, Presbyterian, possibly later became a Deist
William Blount, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Alexander Martin, Presbyterian/Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Rutledge, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, III, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Abraham Baldwin, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Leigh Pierce, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Houstoun, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Few, Methodist

The founders identified the 13 colonies of their union as "Free Protestant". As Protestants, their Declaration in 1776 that "all men are created equal (in authority) " was consistent with the doctrine of their founder, the man who first openly protested the hierarchy of men (the pope and priests in the Roman Chatholic Church) over Christians. His name was Martin Luther. He was a Roman Catholic priest from Germany who began the "Protestant Reformation". He stated the following:

"I say, then, neither pope, nor bishop, nor any man whatever has the right of making one syllable binding on a Christian man, unless it be done with his own consent.

Whatever is done otherwise is done in the spirit of tyranny...I cry aloud on behalf of liberty and conscience, and I proclaim with confidence that no kind of law can with any justice be imposed on Christians, except so far as they themselves will; for we are free from all."

INTRODUCTION TO THE LIBERTY PRINCIPLES IN AMERICAN POLITICS
by Stephen L. Corrigan - http://w3.one.net/~stephenc/fun.html

[Chad Fairbanks]

Do you, or do not, agree that Partial Birth Abortion is Murder? Because you seem to be arguing that it's not, but maybe I'm just not seeing your point amongst all your babbling???

[the_doc]

Hey, I'm fairly intelligent, and CCWoody is, too.

That's not the problem.