America Admits Suspects Died In Interrogations

Independent (UK) ^ | 3-7-2003 | Andrew Gumbel

[blam]

America admits suspects died in interrogations

By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
07 March 2003

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury".

US officials previously admitted using "stress and duress" on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers.

While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty. The US has also come under heavy criticism for its reported policy of handing suspects over to countries such as Jordan, Egypt or Morocco, where torture techniques are an established part of the security apparatus. Legally, Human Rights Watch says, there is no distinction between using torture directly and subcontracting it out.

Some American politicians have argued that torture could be justified in this case if it helped prevent terror attacks on US citizens. Jonathan Turley, a prominent law professor at George Washington University, countered that embracing torture would be "suicide for a nation once viewed as the very embodiment of human rights".

Torture is part of a long list of concerns about the Bush administration's respect for international law, after the extrajudicial killing of al-Qa'ida suspects by an unmanned drone in Yemen and the the indefinite detention of "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a number of whom have committed or attempted to commit suicide.

President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting "a different fate". "Let's put it this way," he said in a tone that appalled many, "they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."

[EaglesUpForever]

If it saves ONE American life, then it is worth it.

Absolutely. Even *if* the accusations are true, which they probably are not.

After 9/11 those who stand against the US deserve no mercy. Are the Al Queda signatories to the Geneva Convention?

[MigrantOkie]

"killing them is not right"

I absolutely agree, dead men tell no tales.

[The_Media_never_lie]

President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al- Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting "a different fate". "Let's put it this way," he said in a tone that appalled many, "they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."

Thank goodness President Bush is encouraging extra-judicial solutions, i.e. military solutions to this problem.

[caspera]

This is not a flame. I just want to point out that the Geneva Convention is a two way street; terrorists are not subject to the Geneva Convention. Only uniformed soldiers in a regular army acting in ofiicial service to a state are subject to the convention. For terrorists, anything goes.

Think about it this way: if regular soldiers who abide by the Convention are accorded the same Geneva Convention treatment as terrorists, then that creates an incentive for soldiers to resort to terrorist tactics when it is to their advantage. There would, after all, be no downside.

[BamaBlue]

First you have this:

Homicide: The killing of one human being by the act of another...Homicide is not necessarily a crime. It is a necessary ingredient of the crimes of murder and manslughter, but there are other cases in which homicide may be committed without criminal intent and without criminal consequenes, as, where it is done in the lawful execution of a judicial sentence, in self-defense, or as the only possible means of arresting an escaping felon. The term "homicide" is neutral; while it describes the act, it pronounces no judgement on its moral or legal quality.
Black's Law Dictionary

[Truthsearcher]

Count me as one of those people who is concerned about the charges of torture, I hope it's not true, and if it is we should stop.

9/11 was horrific, but it should not be used to justify inhumane actions by us. We should do the right thing, instead of lowering ourselves to the level of the barabarians who attacked us.

Part of the reason I support us going into Iraq and removing Saddam is the total lack of regard for human rights in his regime, and for us to maintain that moral high ground in this we should refrain from actions that wold bring our commitment to human rights into question.

I am a little concerned about the blase attitude toward torture here. The test of one's principles comes with the hard times, not the easy ones. It's easy to support the freedom of speech of someone you agree with, it's supporting those that you disagree with that is the true test of your commitment to the principle of free speech. Same here, it's easy to be for the human rights of people we like, but the true test of our commitment to that principle is whether we recognize the same right in people whom we detest.

[BamaBlue]

Then you have this:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030306/ts_nm/afghan_usa_investigation_dc_1

[blau993]

Jonathan Turley, a prominent law professor at George Washington University, countered that embracing torture would be "suicide for a nation once viewed as the very embodiment of human rights".

Jonathan Turley is an NPR media whore. He is a bush leaguer who claims to be THE expert on whatever he thinks may be newsworthy at the moment.

Even NPR has grown weary of him at times, witness their resolve some years ago to establish a "Turley-free Zone." That resolve has flagged lately. I have heard him on NPR three nights straight now, each night opining on a different subject.

Lazy reporters looking for a cheap reliable quote will always love the Turleys of the world.

[DoughtyOne]

If I thought we were in breach of the Geneva convention, I'd be against it. Let's remember folks, we don't want our men mistreated in violation of the Geneva convention. I do belive there are forms of interrogation that are as effective as torture.

I am not comfortable at all with the reporting on this subject, from this source. It will take a lot more than this to convince me that we killed two prisoners by use of torture.

[danmar]

...and if may ask, what is the point to this posting?...what exactly is the poster trying to prove?!

[ConservativeNewsNetwork]

What's this shit about Al Queda members having "human" rights?

Who ever gave them the idea that they even qualify?

[BamaBlue]

So, putting those two together you have NOTHING. Homicide is simply death by the hand of another. If the injuries cited were caused in the capture, rather than during confinement, then no criminal act was committed. Regretfully, the Independent has jumped to conclusions.

[blam]

"...and if may ask, what is the point to this posting?...what exactly is the poster trying to prove?!"

It's news. ...and the poster isn't trying to prove anything.

[ALASKA]

this sort of picture is getting much, much more difficult to find on the search engines...

It always was. The European media showed much more of the HORROR of 9/11/2001 than the US media. There were many more jumpers from the WTC than we were led to believe. I wish every news show would start their program with similar video, just to remind everyone what we are fighting against.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

I just love our new Office of Strategic Information!

[blam]

"It always was. The European media showed much more of the HORROR of 9/11/2001 than the US media. There were many more jumpers from the WTC than we were led to believe. I wish every news show would start their program with similar video, just to remind everyone what we are fighting against."

I've read here on FR that the South American TV stations were more thorough in their coverage also.

[bfree]

TOO F**KING BAD. KILL MORE OF THEM!!!

[UnBlinkingEye]

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

Shame on us.

[IronJack]

I'm trying to care. I really am. My conscience tells me that torture is never justified, that it just leads to similar atrocities against our troops, that we forfeit the high ground when we wallow in the lowest realms of our being.

Then I remember the Trade Center, and the cold, undying rage I felt that day Evil briefly reigned. And I send my conscience out to find the key to the keelson ...

[FreepLady]

"Were the 3000 that died on 9/11 treated humanely?"

AMEN!! Have people forgotten what happened already?? I just remember seeing the picture of the woman holding the baby out the window for air in the Trade Center...TORTURE the bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!