Posted on 03/06/2003 9:41:34 AM PST by Deadeye Division
Gun bill expected to pass in House
Republicans favored the bill, and Democrats opposed it.
Thursday, March 6, 2003
Lee Leonard
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Legislation permitting Ohioans to carry concealed handguns is in position for another vote in the Ohio House, but the chance of it becoming law still appears to be a long shot.
The House, which adopted a similar bill last year, will probably do so again, perhaps next week.
But Rep. James Aslanides, R-Coshocton, the chief sponsor, is urging the Senate to take its time and pass a version that has overwhelming support from senators to counteract a likely veto by Gov. Bob Taft. Legislators can override a governor's veto by a three-fifths vote of each chamber.
"We want them (the Senate) to work the bill to get the most votes they can, irrespective of any other interested party,'' Aslanides said shortly after House Bill 12 emerged from the House Criminal Justice Committee yesterday on a party-line vote.
Republicans favored the bill, and Democrats opposed it.
The House spent 10 months on the bill last session, and the Senate in December appeared to come close to a version that would gain the acceptance of the State Highway Patrol and therefore the governor.
But the patrol opposes the current version; Taft has said he will veto any bill that lacks support from a majority of the law-enforcement community.
Senate President Doug White, R-Manchester, has said the conceal-carry bill is not a top priority in the Senate. A slowdown in the Senate would allow time for the Ohio Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of the current gun law in a case scheduled to be heard April 15.
If the high court throws out the current ban on concealed weapons, Aslanides said he believes his bill will gain popularity.
Before passing the bill, the committee reduced the penalties for sheriffs who release to the public information about applicants or fail to destroy the fingerprints.
The panel also voted to allow individuals to carry their weapons into a school safety zone if they are dropping off or picking up a child at school.
Democrats tried without success to ban the handguns from hospitals, preschools and day-care centers, and other places. They also failed to require background checks every four years to have the permit renewed.
Proponents and opponents argued the issue during two days of committee hearings. Yesterday, members on both sides of the issue fenced with each other through each witness.
Rep. John R. Willamowski, R-Lima, asked each opponent if he or she would still be opposed to regulating concealed handguns if the Supreme Court declares the current prohibition unconstitutional. Willamowski said in the absence of a law, Ohioans would be able to carry concealed weapons without any restrictions or training.
Doug Joseph, director of the Ohio Gun Rights Coalition, told the panel it would be ideal for Ohio to have an unfettered conceal-carry policy, as Vermont does.
"Let the high court rule first and then determine if additional gun legislation is needed,'' he said.
Joseph said Ohioans have a constitutional right to carry concealed weapons, without licensing, registration, training and "degrading'' fingerprinting.
But Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, opposed the bill for a different reason.
"Ohioans don't want it,'' she said. "The majority of us don't want hidden guns carried in pockets, purses and briefcases.''
Hoover, whose husband was murdered by a gunman 30 years ago, said Ohioans have a right to do as they wish in their own homes, and current law permits them to carry firearms openly in public.
She said she can leave a public place if she sees someone with a gun.
"I don't have that choice if the weapon is hidden,'' she said.
Capt. John Born of the State Highway Patrol said his agency continues to oppose the bill, chiefly because it would allow a loaded weapon in the front seat of a motor vehicle. Proponents have said a conceal-carry bill is useless unless motorists have easy access to a loaded handgun in case they are threatened.
Rep. Bill Seitz, R-Cincinnati, said a motorist should be able to defend himself or herself in the event of a carjacking attempt.
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Major provisions of House Bill 12
Sheriffs would be required to issue conceal-carry permits to eligible individuals 21 or older who pass a criminal background check and complete a certified course in firearms handling, safety and storage.
Convicted felons and fugitives from justice would not be eligible, nor would anyone subject to a domestic-violence protective order. Those with a history of mental illness would have to present a doctor's certificate attesting that they are in remission.
Concealed weapons would be banned in airport terminals, school safety zones, places of worship, bars, courthouses and secured areas of police departments, prisons and jails. They also would be banned in stadiums and arenas where alcohol is sold. Private business owners could ban the weapons from their property.
Twelve hours of training for permit applicants would be required, including time on a shooting range. There would be a written exam and a competency test to qualify for a permit.
Applicants would be fingerprinted for the criminal background check, but the sheriff's office would have to destroy the fingerprints once the check was finished.
03/06/03
Julie Carr Smyth
Plain Dealer Bureau
Columbus - Concealed-handgun legislation that cleared a House committee yesterday would cost Ohio taxpayers nearly $5 million over the next two years - and up to $5.7 million annually by 2007.
About $1 million a year would be offset by fees charged by the state to run background checks on Ohioans who applied to carry guns in pockets, purses, gloveboxes and holsters.
Analysts attributed the added costs to the state to more Ohioans going to prison under the bill's toughened penalty for firearm theft.
These fiscal facts - contained in a legislative analysis of the bill - were all but absent from hours of heated debate yesterday. Yet it was backed in committee by the same House GOP caucus that is searching Gov. Bob Taft's budget proposal for every penny of savings.
The bill, which would legalize the carrying of concealed handguns for most Ohioans, cleared the House Criminal Justice Committee by an 8-5 vote along party lines. It heads to the floor next week for likely approval - then on to the Senate.
A similar bill cleared the House last session, and was amended and passed by the Senate. It died when the House opted not to return from recess to vote on the Senate changes, saying they expected a Taft veto.
Taft still wants a bill supported by major law enforcement, spokesman Orest Holubec said, and yesterday several opposed the new version of the bill. Among those who testified during the seven-hour hearing were the State Highway Patrol and groups representing police chiefs and prosecutors. Fraternal Order of Police lobbyist Mike Taylor said his group also opposes the bill.
The fiscal analysis estimates that 71,000 Ohioans will apply for concealed-handgun licenses, at $45, if it becomes legal - pumping up to $3.2 million a year into a separate fund for county sheriffs to use for administration and enforcement costs. The Buckeye State Sheriff's Association supports the bill. Its chief proponent is the National Rifle Association.
After Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, testified that the bill would be a menace to public safety, committee members grilled her for more than an hour.
Rep. Mike Gilb, a Findlay Republican, questioned whether Hoover had ever read the provision of Ohio's Constitution that allows residents to own weapons to protect themselves.
Rep. John Willamowski, a Lima Republican, asked Hoover why legislators should favor a law that seems to favor property over people.
In a series of amendments, Democrats tried unsuccessfully to limit access by those carrying concealed weapons: to public buildings, day-care centers, stadiums, hospitals and mental-health facilities. All their amendments were tabled.
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
jsmyth@plaind.com, 1-800-228-8272
And that's a bad thing? No one wants to pay more taxes, but thieves have to be punished.
She(the reporterette) sure didn't mention, anything about crime going down, with CCW.
Rep. Mike Gilb, a Findlay Republican, questioned whether Hoover had ever read the provision of Ohio's Constitution that allows residents to own weapons to protect themselves.
I would have loved to hear, Ms Hoover's reply.
"First, this report deserves to be suspect, simply because any time unnamed "analysts" are cited, it is likely the "analysts" are people with an agenda, which would readily apparent if their identities were known.
Second, even IF these numbers were accurate, shouldn't the people who are oppose concealed carry reform due to safety/gun violence concerns be elated that it might cost as little as $5 million to get these criminals off the street?
To contact the author of this story, PD Reporter Julie Carr-Smyth, to inquire about the "analysts" which she quotes, email her (jsmyth@plaind.com), or call her at 1-800-228-8272."
House Bill 12 now awaits a floor vote, currently scheduled for Tuesday, March 11.
Analysts attributed the added costs to the state to more Ohioans going to prison under the bill's toughened penalty for firearm theft.
Can they really say that with a straight face? - Ridiculous!
By William Hershey
e-mail address: whershey@coxohio.com
Columbus Bureau
COLUMBUS | The Ohio House on Wednesday voted 69-28 for legislation giving Ohioans the right to carry concealed handguns in their purses, jackets, cars and elsewhere.
The Senate now takes up the issue. Senate President Doug White, R-Manchester, said he expects quick action, with a floor vote coming within three weeks.
The House and Senate in the last legislative session passed different concealed weapons bills and adjourned before compromising on a final version.
White said he doesn’t know if the two chambers would be as far apart this time. The Senate’s earlier version was more restrictive that the House’s.
The House bill approved Wednesday is much like the one it approved earlier and almost certainly would draw a veto from Gov. Bob Taft, who has said he wouldn’t go along with concealed-carry legislation that doesn’t have the support of major law enforcement groups. The Ohio Highway Patrol and the state’s police chiefs oppose the House version.
Among other things, the patrol objects to the provision allowing drivers with permits to carry firearms in their cars and trucks.
The vote came after an hour of sometimes passionate debate.
"Law enforcement cannot protect every citizen 24 hours a day," said Rep. Jim Aslanides, R-Coshocton, the bill’s sponsor. Residents should be able to protect themselves from criminal attack, he said.
Rep. Joe Koziura, D-Lorain, had a different view.
"In 2003, if we call ourselves a civilized society we ought to vote ‘no’ on this bill," Koziura said.
Rep. Sally Conway Kilbane, R-Rocky River, an opponent, said she was concerned that the debate showed "we can’t trust one another."
Rep. Timothy Grendell, R-Chesterland, a supporter, retorted, "I trust the law-abiding citizens of Ohio."
The bill would require county sheriffs to issue permits to Ohioans 21 and older who complete 12 hours of training and pass background checks. Those with histories of mental illness, a domestic protective order or a felony conviction would not qualify for permits. Concealed weapons would not be allowed in airports, school zones, court houses, churches, prisons and bars.
The debate on concealed weapons is complicated by two pending court cases that challenge the constitutionality of Ohio’s current law prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons. Courts in Hamilton and Seneca counties have ruled the law unconstitutional and the issue has been appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court, which has scheduled a hearing April 15.
If the two chambers agree on a version that draws a Taft veto, it would take a vote from three-fifths of the members in each body — 60 in the 99-member House and 20 in the 33-member Senate — to override.
In the Miami Valley, Republican House members supported the bill. Democratic Reps. Dixie Allen and Fred Strahon of Dayton opposed it. Democrat Derrick Seaver of Celina supported it.
Laura A. Bischoff contributed to this report. Contact William Hershey at (614) 224-1608 or whershey@coxohio.com
[From the Dayton Daily News: 03.13.2003]
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