Microsoft WinXP Update spies on other PC software

The Inquirer ^ | Tuesday 25 February 2003 | Inquirer Staff

[Knitebane]

Software components reported to Vole Central

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 25 February 2003, 14:21

A REPORT ON a German site claims that Microsoft extracts more information from a person's PC when the update Windows facility is used running the WinXP operating system.

According to tecCHANNEL, it has deciphered which data is transferred to Microsoft Central whenever you connect to its update web site.

The site's tecDUMP utility intercepts messages which were deciphered in the course of an exchange with Microsoft.

And, the site claims, the information can pass on to Microsoft a list of all of the software installed on an individual's computer, including software manufactured by other manufacturers.

According to tecCHANNEL, this information is more extensive than is necessary for the purpose. The site said Microsoft has not yet replied in detail to its concerns about passing sensitive data.

The story starts here. µ

[Knitebane]

Here's a way to confirm who the idiots are. Tell people about this. Those that act surprised that Microsoft would spy on them are the idiots.

I mean, really. Who didn't expect this?

[Knitebane]

For your ping list

[holymoly]

It's been known for sometime that Windows XP is spyware. I've read a number of articles on this topic.

In fact, I've spoken to someone who had WinXP on their system. One day, this person got a letter from Microsoft's legal department, stating that they knew he had illegal software on his system, and threatening legal action.

His first thought was "WTF? How do they know what I have on my computer?" Then it dawned on him - he'd recently installed WinXP.

He promptly formatted his HD, and is now running Windows 2000.

[Hodar]

Looking at the data that was uploaded, appears to be information concerning the hardware of the PC. This would be stuff like chipset revisions, soundcard info, motherboard and support components.

Why would MS need this? Easy, to determine who, if any PC vendors are NOT supplying WHQL lab reports back to MS for Windows certification. MS is blamed for everything that goes wrong with your PC. But, if your motherboard uses a chip that MS has never heard of, and your internet connection is flaky ... who get's blamed? Wal-mart, Tiger Direct, or the back alley store that sold you a non-windows conformant PC, or Microsoft? Naturally, it is a software problem, and therefore it's all Microsoft's fault.

I work in this industry. You wouldn't believe how many motherboard manufacturers there are, and how many thousands of support chips are on the market (IDE, SCSI, Ethernet controllers, memory controllers, DMA controllers, Video cards, etc.). The motherboard suppliers are SUPPOSED to run WHQL tests from MS to verify that their board is compliant with Windows specifications, and if there are deviations, apply to MS for a waiver. This is voluntary.

How else can MS gather the data, to support the non-savvy PC buyer, who is looking more at buying a low cost PC; than buying a fully compliant name brand PC?

[Knitebane]

How else can MS gather the data, to support the non-savvy PC buyer, who is looking more at buying a low cost PC; than buying a fully compliant name brand PC?

By asking users to voluntarily provide information for their database.

Instead Microsoft takes data from users PCs while claiming that they don't.

How odd that NetBSD, FreeBSD and numerous Linux distributions can support many, many more hardware configurations than Microsoft does yet none of them feel the need to spy on users.

[Knitebane]

He promptly formatted his HD, and is now running Windows 2000.

That won't save him. Win2K SP3 includes a EULA that authorizes Microsoft to install any software they wish on your PC as well as delete any software that they find objectionable.

[rdb3]

The Penguin Ping.

Wanna be Penguified? Just holla!

Got root?

[isthisnickcool]

(Insert B2k drunken Belushi like screaming fit about how gates/MS is god here)

[Wurlitzer]

"How else can MS gather the data, to support the non-savvy PC buyer, who is looking more at buying a low cost PC; than buying a fully compliant name brand PC? "

As long as I know the data is being extracted from my PC, what type of data and I have given permission then fine. To extract any information without my consent is wrong.

[MineralMan]

"Looking at the data that was uploaded, appears to be information concerning the hardware of the PC. This would be stuff like chipset revisions, soundcard info, motherboard and support components.
"

I looked at the data as well. It is data, not on non-Microsoft software, but rather data on hardware drivers for the most part, focusing on the dates of those drivers.

Now, the user went to Microsoft to get an update to his version of Windows XP. Microsoft checked the dates for the drivers installed on the particular machine then, presumably, updated those for which there was an update.

I saw nothing there that looked at non-Microsoft software programs or much of anything else.

How does a company update your system without knowing what is currently installed on that system? A lot of ado about nothing much, it seems to me.

Now, if you try to get an update for an unlicensed copy of XP or for an unlicensed copy of Office, then I suppose Microsoft would be a bit upset and not give you the update.

But I don't see them spying on anything other than the versions and dates of Microsoft software installed on that PC.

[Hodar]

How odd that NetBSD, FreeBSD and numerous Linux distributions can support many, many more hardware configurations than Microsoft does yet none of them feel the need to spy on users.

Again, I work in the industry. We test both these, plus Novell and every flavor of Linux on the market. And these solutions also compromise less than 1% of the PC marketshare.

Also, FreeBSD and NetBSD are simply basic OS's, in that they do not pioneer multimedia applications. DirectX (8.1 or 9), OpenGL, plus the whole gauntlet of audio standards are included in MS. And MS must, repeat MUST support a plethora of games and applications; that are not available on FreeBSD or NetBSD.

[Siegfried]

This is just the sort of thing that got me started looking into Linux last year. It's been about six months now and I still haven't got Linux fully working on my old Pentium I, but I'm sure I'll be able to iron out all the installation glitches pretty soon. It's also running quite nicely on my old 486.

I'm going to be buying a new computer this spring and I'm not going to buy M$ operating system for it. I'm just going to put a 2 GB partition on the hard drive and install Win95 again to give me some compatibility with old dos programs that I use a lot. The rest of the space will be for Linux.

This prying into your computer by M$ is only the first salvo in a long war that Bill Gates intends to win. IMO his eventual goal is to be receiving a yearly rent check from every computer user in the world for the continuing use of their computer. He won't be receiving a check from me, that's for sure.

Check out Linux. You can get a CD for $5 on Ebay (or download it for free if you have a fast connection). It takes some work and lots of reading, so don't expect it to fire up and run just right the first day. But I think you'll find it worth it in the future.

[stanz]

We have Windows XP and were advised to download a Service Pak because of security holes. But, I wasn't aware of this spying capability. You mean if I buy software which is not Microsoft, they have the right to threaten me?

[Hodar]

But I don't see them spying on anything other than the versions and dates of Microsoft software installed on that PC

I agree. In this case, it appears that Microsoft is 'fishing' for obsolete or incompatable 3rd party drivers.

[dennisw]

Would your advice be to stick with win2k service pack2? Is service pack3 (which I use) necessary?

[Knitebane]

Also, FreeBSD and NetBSD are simply basic OS's, in that they do not pioneer multimedia applications. DirectX (8.1 or 9), OpenGL, plus the whole gauntlet of audio standards are included in MS. And MS must, repeat MUST support a plethora of games and applications; that are not available on FreeBSD or NetBSD.

Xmms and mplayer support more hardware and more multimedia codecs than MS or Real.

The GIMP is used to make Hollywood movies. OpenGL is supported by Linux and FreeBSD. Most Windows games run perfectly fine under Wine. I've been playing both StarCraft and Diablo II for months under Linux. Indeed, Diablo II runs better under Wine on Linux than on Windows.

Sorry, your assertations don't hold up to reality.

Microsoft operating systems work on a single platform and support a fraction of the hardware devices being sold. The vast majority of x86 compatible hardware is well-documented and is well supported on operating systems other than Windows.

The Windows API is not well documented. Therein lies the problem. Stealing customer data will not help Microsoft to better support users. It will let them target software companies for destruction and let them sell the lists to marketing companies.

[DallasMike]

How odd that NetBSD, FreeBSD and numerous Linux distributions can support many, many more hardware configurations than Microsoft does yet none of them feel the need to spy on users.

I run a Linux box and a Windows 2000 box at home. I like them both so I really don't have a dog in this fight. However, my experience is that Windows is much more supportive of varying hardware than the X86 versions of Linux. Linux is getting better, but it's still not as tolerant as Windows when it comes to hardware support.

Also, I have my Linux box (Redhat 8.0) set up so that it can automatically sense any new software patches and upgrades when I run in root mode. So in one sense, Redhat "spies" on my system configuration just as Microsoft "spies" on my Windows 2000 configuration.

[Hodar]

No, this is the stuff of Urban Legends.

Everyone knows of a neighbor's cousin's ex-roommate's son-in-law's friend's ex-classmate that says that he received a threatening letter from MS. The rules of illegal search without a warrant still apply.

Furthermore, in my line of work, we have THOUSANDS of machines, in which we load THE SAME program (OS, Game, Apps, Utilities) over and over. We do NOT register as the legit entity we are, because we want to emulate the user's experience. We do this to find bugs. I personally reload hard drives 3-4x a week with every program you can imagine. We do this on different revisions of Mobo's, chipsets, and such.

How would MS be able to seperate us, from you? We don't register as the company; as that may somehow cause the program to behave differently.

The PC is your property. You have more to fear from the DCMA than from MS.

[MineralMan]

"I agree. In this case, it appears that Microsoft is 'fishing' for obsolete or incompatable 3rd party drivers."

In this case....but we don't have another case. This is another of those stories that _seems_ to say that Microsoft is doing something awful, but when you look at the actual data used to demonstrate that, it doesn't show anything of the sort.

It's not tough to monitor what goes out over your internet connection. I do it myself occasionally when I'm looking at a suspect web site. If Microsoft were truly doing what this article says, then they should be able to demonstrate it. That their data shows nothing of the sort indicates to me that they're blowing smoke for some reason.

I wonder how many of those who will comment on this will actually look at the data?

[Knitebane]

IMO his eventual goal is to be receiving a yearly rent check from every computer user in the world for the continuing use of their computer.

Not just your opinion. Licensing 6.0 is moving that direction already.

Except for a VMWare copy of Win2K on my laptop, I am Microsoft free. I run RedHat Linux on two desktops and one laptop, FreeBSD on my x86 servers, OpenBSD on my Sparc servers and security devices and NetBSD on everything else.

To date, the only thing that requires me to use Windows at all is a VB/Access app at one of my customer sites. Office, including Visio, work well under Codeweavers Wine.