THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES

2/22/2003

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I don't know anything about 9 millimeter loads that the U.S. military uses (I tend to ignore the handguns that our armed forces use and I study a lot about rifles).

A word of advice about hot powder +P loads in your 9 x 19 handgun: some handguns are not built for +P loads (consult your user's manual for your handgun).

With handgun loads your hollowpoint will not expand about 50% of the time. This is what they have found in numerous shootings where handguns have been used as handgun bullet velocites are so low.

Go to the website below and read the information there for more information on handgun stopping power.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

[Doomonyou]

Bookmarked!

[I got the rope]

http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/page3.html

Magsafe is a proven one shot stopper from the 9mm. I can't imagine what it would do in a .357 or a .45 ACP.

[Nov3]

First modern 9's like the glock and sig will safely handle the Nato loads which make the +P (and +P+ for that matter) look mild.

Second as far as expansion goes what you say is true. That is why every one of my posts specifies a MODERN +P or +P+ hollow point. The modern bullets do expand reliably even when fired through multiple layers of denim or leather.

Third as far as wounding characteristics go, it is all fine and good that he can write a scholarly article. Fackler also does a good job of running his mouth and produces articles and equations that show that a 45 ball round is more effective than a modern 9mm hollowpoint. (For that matter his equations have shown that 124 or 147 gr 9mm Nato ball are both much more effective than a modern 115gr 9mm hollow point) Both are manifestly bull$#!T.

If you want real wounding characteristics go to the actual shootings. The actual shootings show a different reality.

The modern 230 gr 45 hollow point is an excellent round but it is only slightly more effective than a modern 9mm hollow point in ACTUAL shootings. The actual shootings are what counts.

You can post these articles until you are blue in the face. I love Jeff Cooper more than the next guy and his opinions were correct WHEN he formed them. Now they are patently WRONG. Technology has marched on and is producing more effective rounds every year. BTW the MODERN 45 rounds are looking more and more like 9mm in their loadings (though I would carry the 230 if I carried my 45).

[Nov3]

Amend Fackler to say Hatcher

[ExSoldier]

In the 45ACP (when not using MagSafe) I prefer using 185gr Hydra-Shok's or 185gr Cor-Bon +P's.

In the 40S&W (again when not using MagSafe) I prefer the 165gr or 135 gr Hydra-Shok or the 165 gr Speer Gold Dot. At the ned of June, my wife and I will be driving out to Texas from our home in Miami, FL to pick up a Newfoundland pup (an adoption, lol). I'll be carrying my Glock M27 40S&W. For concealabilty and comfort, I'll have the short 9rd mag in the gun stoked with MagSafe. My backups will be Hi-Cap M22 or M23 mags with the A & G grip extenders so as to provide a seamless grip A & G

I figure that I'll be capable of launching 72 rounds before I even have to worry about topping off mags (wife's job) from the two 50rd boxes of backup ammo. Thanks be to Governor Jeb Bush for all the reciprocity agreements that will allow me to be "legal" for the entire trip.

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I have not read anything on the 9 millimeter being an extremely effective handgun cartridge.

What I do know is our troops would much rather carry .45 ACP handguns rather than the M-9. Many police departments have taken the .40 S&W over the 9 x 19.

You will never convince me that a 9 x 19 handgun is more effective in stopping power than a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP handgun.

Granted there are a few advantages to the 9 x 19 cartridge. You can generally get a smaller more concealable handgun for carry and ammo is quite common. Carry what you want though. In the end it's your preference.

[Nov3]

Most of the people I know who talk a bunch of big bore trash can't hit anything with a handgun anyway. It won't make up for not shooting well. (I know you have been through Gunsite so that doesn't apply to you!) Again if a modern +P 9mm hollowpoint in the chest won't stop someone a 45 wouldn't either.

We can agree on one thing nobody wants to carry a full size Baretta M-9, it is a clunky POS. If my choice was a 1911 or that I would be carrying a 1911 especially since I would be using ball ammo. As far as that is concerned I would lose the pistol and carry a few more 30 round mags if I was in the military.

[FireTrack]

For myself, the smoothest shooting and most accurate without a brace is the 454 Super Redhawk shooting the 45 long colt round. I also own the H&K USP in the 45 Cal and it is super accurate for a short barrel 45 automatic. Takes a smooth trigger pull to keep it on target though.

[kildak]

Probably all for the better anyway. Frangible ammo such as Magsafe has become somewhat of a joke within the terminal ballistics community.

A good source of information for proper ammo selection can be found at www.tacticalforums.com.

[sflapper]

I BELEIVE I HAVE DEVELOPED THE MOST POWERFUL AUTO PISTOL CARTRIDGE EVER, IT IS VERY FAST AND ACCURATE, IT WILL PENETRATE 3/16" STEEL AT 25YDS AND WILL HOLD LESS THAN 1" ACCURCY AND IT WILL REACH 2600+ FPS MUZZEL VEL, A HAND GUN CLOSEING THE VELOCITY GAP BETWEEN RIFLE AND PISTOL.

[MikeyCC]

Hi Squantos. Why stainless? Isn't that really shiny in the daylight? It's humorous how everybody has their own opinions on so many aspects of firearms. Really keeps everything interesting. Take care.

[bmwcyle]

Thanks for the info

[mad_as_he$$]

Good advice, I prefer the 1911 but I have never noticed that the hollow point expanded significantly when used on most subjects (as the chart seems to indicate). I postulated that it was the relatively slow bullet speed.

If i could presume to add to your advice - practice, practice, practice - there IS NO substitute.

[mad_as_he$$]

Two in the chest, one in the head, shoot that F'er till he's dead.

[mad_as_he$$]

I can tell you from first hand experience the following. I shot a guy in VN at about 75 yards with three rounds of 5.56 FMJ. He kept coming, F'er was going to get him a gringo that day, M16 empty I drew my 1911 with some "special" (very hot) ammo my Uncle had hand loaded for me. Hit him once in the upper chest and dropped him like he had been hit with a club. When the smoke cleared we checked the body; 5.56mm clean through and through the belly area. 45 completely blew up a lung and destroyed the shoulder. That shot was at about 60 feet.

Many years later I shot a perp in a store hold up with a 44 mag. That was not very pretty either but it stopped him. He had killed the clerk, a friend of mine for $25 and an arm load of smokes.

Now all that said I am a firm believer in shot placement with any shot. Of course you don't always get that option.

[Jim Noble]

the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge

The theoretical stopping power rises in inverse proportion to the ability of the average, minimally trained shooter to hit the target.

Four hits with a .22 are better than four misses with a .44.

[Jim Noble]

What I do know is our troops would much rather carry .45 ACP handguns rather than the M-9. Many police departments have taken the .40 S&W over the 9 x 19.

Soldiers, marines, and policemen are not representative of the general population.

[JRPerry]

"Soldiers, marines and policemen are not representative of the general population."? You are kidding right? You typed that facetiously right? I will assure you that 99.9% of all weapons advancements via ballistically or in terms of delivery systems ... have been the result of feedback from solidiers, marines and policemen over the centuries. Your statement could not be any more incorrect imho - not counting the obvious lessening of the value of our soliders, marines and policemen contained within your premise Jim.