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Turkey wants northern Iraq
Daily Times ^

Posted on 02/20/2003 6:39:53 PM PST by BlackJack

‘Turkey demands control of Iraq from US’

By Owen Matthews, Sami Kohen and John Barry

ANKARA: Turkey is raising its price for allowing US forces to invade Iraq from its territory. In early negotiations with the United States, Ankara spoke of sending in Turkish troops to set up a “buffer zone” perhaps 15 miles deep along the Iraqi border. This would prevent a flood of Kurdish refugees from northern Iraq, the Turks said.

But now, Newsweek has learned, Turkey is demanding that it send 60,000 to 80,000 of its own troops into northern Iraq to establish “strategic positions” across a “security arc” as much as 140 to 170 miles deep in Iraq. That would take Turkish troops almost halfway to Baghdad. These troops would not be under US command, according to Turkish sources, who say Turkey has agreed only to “coordination” between US and Turkish forces.

Ankara fears the Iraqi Kurds might use Saddam’s fall to declare independence. Kurdish leaders have not yet been told of this new plan, according to Kurdish spokesmen in Washington, who say the Kurds rejected even the earlier notion of a narrow buffer zone. Farhad Barzani, the US representative of the main Kurdish party in Iraq, the KDP, says, “We have told them: American troops will come as liberators. But Turkish troops will be seen as invaders.”

The White House did not respond to requests for comment; officials elsewhere in the administration played down the Turkish demands as bargaining tactics: “We told them flat out, no.” But independent diplomatic sources in Ankara and Washington with knowledge of the US-Turkey talks say that while the precise depth of the “security zone” has still to be agreed, the concept is “pretty much a done deal,” as one observer put it.

These sources add that the main US concern has been that US, not Turkish, troops occupy the northern Iraqi cities of Mosul and Kirkuk, and that Turkish troops merely surround but not enter the heavily Kurdish cities of Erbil and Sulemaniye. To get Turkey’s assent to this, these sources say, the United States had to “cave” on its demand that Turkish troops be under US control.

Two days of tough negotiations in Washington last week failed to settle the other part of Turkey’s price: a multibillion-dollar economic package. Turkish PM Abdullah Gul is now threatening to delay the all-important vote in the Turkish Parliament to allow US deployments in Turkey. Pentagon officials acknowledge frustration at the problems Turkey’s bargaining poses for the US military buildup.

Turkish sources say that when Turkey’s Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis met with President Bush on Friday, the president warned that the United States might open a northern front against Iraq without Turkish participation. But military sources say that would be close to impossible.

“Turkey is playing hardball,” said Michael Amitay of the Washington Kurdish Institute. “But if the US agrees to these Turkish deployments, there is a real risk that the Kurds will start a guerrilla war against the Turkish troops.” —Newsweek


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: warlist
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To: ChemistCat
Land doesn't mean what it did. ??

Resources don't mean what they did. ??

Okay, you lost me here. If land and resources don't mean anything, what is you expect the Turks to manage? The whole idea is to find responsible Iraqis to manage it, not the Turks.

141 posted on 02/20/2003 8:47:43 PM PST by Marak (these comments do no necessarily reflect the opinion of the writer)
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To: xm177e2
My point about the Kurds and the Turks, although stark I think are what this is all about. We want to establish some sort of "Western" style of government in Baghdad after the war (bad idea). The Turks want their style of government modeled after modern Turkey. I vote for the latter. We have plenty of NEA educated buffoons in the State Department that would just muck this up and create a bigger mess. The Turks will be in this for years to come and they know it. They do not want an Iranian and Syrian sponsored "Kurdish independence movement" in their southern terrirtories. And eventually we will have to deal with both of those nations, probably violently. Let them be the landlords until the new Iraq can function on it's own. We can be the muscle that gurantees stability in the region along with them. But we have to act fast before Russia and China destablize the region even more by feeding even more advanced weapons to their client states.
142 posted on 02/20/2003 8:49:29 PM PST by Beck_isright
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To: xm177e2

143 posted on 02/20/2003 8:49:37 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Beck_isright
This person who is using our President's name...is way, way, way, way, way, way out there.

I can guarantee you he never sat on a rickety wooden stool sipping hot tea from a graceful glass for hours, while cheerful boys unrolled dozens of brilliant silk and wool carpets one atop another at his feet, his hand warmly shaken whether he bought a rug or not. He never ate fresh mullet with rice pilaf, talking about comparative religion with a guy who made his living driving a taxi in Istanbul, always braking for stray cats. He never attended a circumcision party for the 8-year-old next door, whose father bankrupted himself buying food and entertainment for the whole village. He never gave a guy with a tractor a carton of Marlboros to pull his car out of the mud. The Dolmabace Palace and the Topkapi Sera mean nothing to him; he's never seen anything older than the Alamo. The tomb of Ataturk would not move him at all. In short, he hasn't rubbed shoulders with the Turks, and he thinks of them as if they are French, or Saudi, or some other alien, not-yet-declared enemy. He is xenophobic, incapable of wonder or trust, or of understanding that different interests can actually work together. He doesn't know who the Turks are. Governments are governments, but the Turks are not going to turn on us unless we do it first. If our media is making us think otherwise then it is our media that is not our friend.
144 posted on 02/20/2003 8:50:57 PM PST by ChemistCat (Many are hungry, but few have smoked almonds.)
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To: Rebelbase
>> I'm still laughing

Admit that I was tring to be funny. But man, you should see the pings I get from those over the op fundamentalist Christians. I mean, I am almost convinced that I am going to hell.

Then other things happen, like there was an article posted that the Palestinian terror leadership was calling all Muslims to attack and bomb American and Jewish targets. I put in a response that said Napalm! Got a response that said: Bring it on Jihadist! LOL!

That's alright, we've all got our fair share of morons.
145 posted on 02/20/2003 8:51:13 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout: the candy man!)
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To: George W. Bush
Keep in mind that alot of this is PsyOps. We are pumping this up so Iraq remains confused (along with us). I'm sure we will have everything in order by March 2 so I can win my wagers in the invasion pool.
146 posted on 02/20/2003 8:51:56 PM PST by Beck_isright
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To: Beck_isright
LOL You mean March 3rd, right? ;>
147 posted on 02/20/2003 8:55:05 PM PST by Marak (these comments do no necessarily reflect the opinion of the writer)
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To: George W. Bush
>> Turkish forces ... firing upon our troops.

LOL! That will be the day..
148 posted on 02/20/2003 8:55:09 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout: the candy man!)
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To: Marak
I am speaking of the economics of the situation. Corporate capitalism and private ownership of most of the means of production (land no longer being the most important of these) have changed what land and resources mean.

There was once a time when a king might have been said to "own" his country and everything within it; that was true of the sultans and caliphs. Though the Dems might have it otherwise, that is no longer true of us, and it is not true of the Turks either.

Of course, the map above reminds me that there is more to this than the economics. Militarily, territory remains a very important consideration. My flip suggestion that we might just split Iraq in half between Turkey and Iran might concern Syria and Kuwait just a teeny bit....
149 posted on 02/20/2003 8:56:31 PM PST by ChemistCat (Many are hungry, but few have smoked almonds.)
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To: ChemistCat
We shall not turn on them. The nice thing about the Turks as that since the days of Ataturk, we've cultivated a nice relationship with them. They resisted jumping in on the side of the Nazis (which could have swung WWII dramatically in 1940) and held the line against the Soviets for 5 decades. They shall always be our friends unless the dimwits in our media think they can sway enough ignorant sheeple to the other side. But since most Americans think that the capital of Turkey is "Butterball" and that the Tyson Foods Corporation is it's largest manufacturer, I'm not too concerned. As long as the veggies have their reality tv, they will not care.
150 posted on 02/20/2003 8:56:35 PM PST by Beck_isright
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To: Marak
LOL, March 2nd, Eastern time; March 3rd UTC.
151 posted on 02/20/2003 8:57:01 PM PST by Beck_isright
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To: He Rides A White Horse
>> If Turkey wants to side with France and Germany, then so be it.

Why is it always about Turkey siding with him or them? Is it impossible to see that Turkey has it's own national security interests for which she cannot risk relying on anyone but herself?

Come on man, you know you feel the same way about your security interests. History has taught us painful lessons concerning reliance on others for ones own security interests. It leads to capitulations.

Is America asking the Turks to capitulate on their national security?
152 posted on 02/20/2003 8:59:14 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout: the candy man!)
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To: a_Turk
There is no such thing as a 'European Union'.........France and Germany have demonstrated that in no uncertain terms.

They've decided to pal around together because they feel a need to 'check' the power of the United States. Do what they say, don't display any 'bad upbringing', and hopeful member nations just might make it into their little clique.

Personally, I see another Europe forming. One that doesn't take orders from France or Germany. Call it 'New' Europe.

France is like the picture of Dorian Gray. It gets uglier every day.

153 posted on 02/20/2003 9:00:08 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (The UN is irrelevant)
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To: Beck_isright
A comforting thought. I go to seek my pillow. Thank you all for a great conversation. Hope to see your posts more often in other places, Beck--is it Glenn B. to whom you refer? Or the beer? LOL.
154 posted on 02/20/2003 9:01:03 PM PST by ChemistCat (Many are hungry, but few have smoked almonds.)
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To: xm177e2
>> The Kurds under US protection in the No-Fly Zone in Northern Iraq

FRiend, the No Fly Zone is there thanks to Turkey. The Kurds in northern Irak are under Turkish, American and British protection. Our parliament has extended this protection every six months for a decade now.
155 posted on 02/20/2003 9:01:33 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout: the candy man!)
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To: xm177e2
>> If one side is deliberately attacking civilians

Do you mean that the PKK was attacking civilians? If that's what you meant, then I agree.
156 posted on 02/20/2003 9:02:57 PM PST by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout: the candy man!)
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To: ChemistCat
Glenn Beck...he's been on a roll again lately and I'm sure with all that's happening it's only going to get better. Have a good evening and I'll catch up to you tommorrow or Sunday depending on my work schedule...
157 posted on 02/20/2003 9:04:13 PM PST by Beck_isright
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To: ChemistCat
As picturesque as your dreamy little vision of Turkey is, I'm glad that Pentagon and State employ only realpolitik-oriented strategists who don't determine our foreign policy or military assessments based on stories about taxidrivers and Muslim bazaars.

I notice you mentioned only the lives of ordinary Turks. That tells us nothing about the intent of the government and military since the people of Turkey are overwhelmingly opposed to any U.S. invasion launched from their country.

Your proofs for the eternal friendship of the government of Turkey toward us based on the decency and charm of Turks are just naive. And I suggest that Americans with cash and cartons of American cigarettes to hand out might be better treated than some others in Turkey or in the region.
158 posted on 02/20/2003 9:04:16 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: a_Turk
What I am saying is that if you choose countries such as France and Germany as your friends, it won't be long before you feel that cold blade in your back.

History has taught us painful lessons concerning reliance on others for ones own security interests.

Right........and the United States is learning one now also. It's called trusting countries like France. Calling them 'allies'.

159 posted on 02/20/2003 9:04:23 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse (The UN is irrelevant)
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To: xm177e2; a_Turk
Amazing. How you can justify terrorism? The killing of innocent civilians because a country "deserves" it??? You sound like a Palestinian. "Israel has been awful to us therefore they deserve to have their children blown up into tiny pieces". How can you be on a conservative forum and justify terrorism?

The problem with terrorism is Americans sometimes happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. What if one of our soldiers was there or an American tourist or business person? Not to mention any innocent Turk who had nothing to do with anything, they are just minding their own business trying to feed their family or go to school.

It wasn’t a nice thing to say. Good night.

160 posted on 02/20/2003 9:08:14 PM PST by SpookBrat
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